[PinkFloydEffect]

Great info man, I am a bit confused though. Are you saying that the Spirit engines were made by Suzuki??

Were the Kawasaki engines made side by side during the Suzuki/Spirit production at all or did one start where the other left off?

So "T" series were made by Kawasaki only or by both manufacturers?

I wish I could find a list of all the engines and their model #s as the production progressed.

My current 340 is a model # AF34A2 - I assume 34 stands for 340 and A2 stands for the revision?

 

[kopeck]

Great info man, I am a bit confused though. Are you saying that the Spirit engines were made by Suzuki??

Were the Kawasaki engines made side by side during the Suzuki/Spirit production at all or did one start where the other left off?

So "T" series were made by Kawasaki only or by both manufacturers?

I wish I could find a list of all the engines and their model #s as the production progressed.

My current 340 is a model # AF34A2 - I assume 34 stands for 340 and A2 stands for the revision?

Spirits are made by Suzuki.

I can't recall what year (77 or 78) they switched from Kawasaki to Sprit/Suzukies.

K

 

[Brettm57]

Actually it was '76 when Cat switched from Kawasaki to Suzuki engines, and Suzuki and Spirit are one and the same.

The Kawasaki engines were built with many interchangeable parts (Example: The 340, 399, and 440 fans were all the same basic engine except for cylinders, pistons, and heads.), so sometimes people assume that the Suzukis were built the same way, but this isn't so. For the most part each Suzuki engine size is it's own design with it's own parts. There are some exceptions (which I'm not going to go into or else I'd be typing all day!), but generally speaking that's true for the most part.

I agree with Kopeck, the Suzukis are infinitely more reliable than the Kawasakis were.

One drawback to the Suzukis that I recently discovered is that the early ('81 and older) oil injected 340 and 440 fan engines used a rubber lipped center seal just like the first Kawasakis did, which failed consistently. I would have thought Cat would have learned their lesson on that with the Kawasakis, but apparently not. The '84 and up Suzukis all use a labyrinth center seal, and those crankshafts will interchange with the '81 and earlier version. I've converted one of each in the last year or so.

 

[kopeck]

Brettm57, I never knew that. We had our share of late 70s and early 80s Suzukis and never had any center seal issues with them. They must have been better then the T1s...

Honestly the only failure I can recall was user error. My cousin who had never rode before burned our '79 Jag 2000 up by driving it with the brake on and the temps in the low 40s *sigh*.

Oh and I should have know 76 was the switch over, my father had a '76 Pantera with the 500 F/A. I was close.

K

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

Great info! So best hunt is an 84+ AKA Suzuki/Spirit

When did they discontinue the fanner engines? Early 90s?

 

[AKeltigre]

The 340 and 440 fan were used until 1998. The 500fan im not sure, early 90s?

 

[Brettm57]

Kopeck, I meant that the Kawasaki center seals failed consistently, which if you've done much at all with old Arctic Cats I'm sure you already know that! LOL! The Suzukis hold up a lot better. The center seal in my 440 Jag failed about two years ago, and I also had a 340 do it. A buddy of mine recently found a bad one in a 440 Jag.

The last 500 fan that I know of was in the Cougars, and I think they ended around 1989 or so?

Yes, if you want to avoid the rubber center seal pick a 340 or 440 that's '84 or newer.

 

[kopeck]

Kopeck, I meant that the Kawasaki center seals failed consistently, which if you've done much at all with old Arctic Cats I'm sure you already know that! LOL! The Suzukis hold up a lot better. The center seal in my 440 Jag failed about two years ago, and I also had a 340 do it. A buddy of mine recently found a bad one in a 440 Jag.

The last 500 fan that I know of was in the Cougars, and I think they ended around 1989 or so?

Yes, if you want to avoid the rubber center seal pick a 340 or 440 that's '84 or newer.

I know what you meant.

My father worked in dealership in the early to mid 70s. I've heard a lot over the years about replacing center seals. I've also replaced a few my self!

Fully cleated tracks and Walbro carbs are also on his list of things to complain about.

K

 

[Brettm57]

My dad sold Arctic Cats from '68 thru '72. Even worse than the full cleated tracks were the ones with the rolled cleats. Absolutely no traction at all and studs (Claws?) wouldn't fit down inside them. I seriously thought my dad was going to set his 1970 634 Panther on fire one day when we were all climbing a pipeline and his sled was the only one that wouldn't go up it. You talk about P.O.'ed.......:angry:

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

The last 500 fan that I know of was in the Cougars, and I think they ended around 1989 or so?

Yes, if you want to avoid the rubber center seal pick a 340 or 440 that's '84 or newer.

What about a 500 between 84-89?

My dad sold Arctic Cats from '68 thru '72. Even worse than the full cleated tracks were the ones with the rolled cleats. Absolutely no traction at all and studs (Claws?) wouldn't fit down inside them. I seriously thought my dad was going to set his 1970 634 Panther on fire one day when we were all climbing a pipeline and his sled was the only one that wouldn't go up it. You talk about P.O.'ed.......:angry:

I think they started with the full cleated tracks then moved to staggered cleats left/right correct? My 79' Jag is cleated but I do not remember if it is full or staggered....does suck though when you hit pavement it goes nowhere!

 

[Brettm57]

As I recall Cat built a 500cc fan from '76 right up thru '89 or whatever in the Cougars. I don't know the Cat lineup real well from '84 on so I'm not sure what models came with a 500 fan other than the Cougar.

Before Cat came out with the 2/3 cleated track they tried a full cleat version about '70 or '71 that the edges of the cleats were rolled into a real tight circle rather than the more common straight edge that gives it traction. The idea was that it would make the cleats stronger, but mostly they just got stuck a lot...

 

[ub3r_l33t_dud3]

Haha its hard to think that the 2/3rd cleated track was an upgrade over anything!

 

[kopeck]

The other big issue with full cleats is they broke at a pretty decent clip.

2/3rd tracks were a BIG improvement. Add in some Cat Claws and they weren't to bad.

On pavement carbides helped quite a bit. The standard bergstroms were soft enough they would stick. They would obviously help a lot on ice too!

K

 

[Kinder88]

Yes, if you want to avoid the rubber center seal pick a 340 or 440 that's '84 or newer.

I was interested in your post, so I did a quick search. Looks to me like they used the rubber center seal from 1981 to 1985. I was worried cause I have a 1976 Pantera 500 F/A, and I don't remember seeing a rubber center seal in it, or any of the late 70's Spirit engines I've torn down. So I'm thinking that older OR newer than '81-'85 Spirit would would be ok...

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

Maybe it is a fanner only thing with the center seals?

 

[Brettm57]

Maybe it is a fanner only thing with the center seals?

That's the only thing I've seen the rubber seals in - 340 and 440 fans built 1981 or earlier.

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

Reading this thread over again I have a few more questions:
- When was the F/A design changed? (it was said to stay away from early year F/A)
- Are SnowPro cylinders/parts only liquid cooled?
- 84/85 was when the center seal was corrected...does this mean stay away from 76-84 500F/C too? I assume the center seal was corrected for the 500 in the same years as the 340/440?


Digging up this thread, looking at my F/C notes:

Pre-76 Kawasaki F/C Bad Engines (T1-A/B BAD) (T1C OK)
1976 Introduced 440 & 500 F/C
Post-76 Suzuki Spirit F/C Good Engines (84/85+ Best center seal) 500 Ended in 90' - 340/440 Ended in 98'

===>Find F/C 1985+ 340/440/500<===

 

[Zr700life]

Can some help me I just 95 z440 and I have been going through it. There is a wire that I can't find where it gose. On my zr it is the heat sense wire. I cant find where the wire gose on the z440 motor.

 

[Brettm57]

I think you'll find that it isn't used on the fan engine. There is as heat sensor in the cooling system of the ZR to turn on the light if the temp gets too high, but there's no sensor that does that on the fan engine.

 

[flatlanderfornow]

stay away from the 90 500 fans- they had center seal issues
retainer ring would break and damage the case