My XTX 700 H1 EFI is starting hard. When I go to start it after it sits for 2-4 days it starts hard. I can hit the key and it will turn over for 15 seconds and not even fire!! When I let off the key and try it again it will start. Why?? I drove it for five minutes today, I parked it outside for 20 minutes. Started the same way turned over and over nothing, let off the key and it started!! I am trying to figure out whats wrong now. Could the battery need a charge? The display dosen't say anything different. Any ideas?
Now it starts fine!!
Bouma
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (triplej @ Jan 3 2010, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
You got that right!! Something isn't right! I walked away from it for the day. I will mess with it more on Monday. I think its almost like it isn't choking itself. The colder it is the harder it starts. It will be sitting in my garage all night. I set the t-stat for 50 degrees. It is 6 degrees outside now. Sorry for the last post, just starting to piss me off! I am glad I didn't buy a snow plow for this thing. Again my Polaris sits 5 feet from it in my barn, never fails to start. Tuesday I am taking it to the dealer, they can have the damn thing till its fixed. I am at the point of walking from Cats all together! I don't want to but am getting pushed to it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (triplej @ Jan 3 2010, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Only problem with that is that its EFI. I hope they get it fixed! This machine is a roler coster ride, one day it runs great and the next it dosen't start. I would love to have some consistency with it. The sad thing is everyone I ride with said " Don't buy a Cat all you will do is work on it" Looks like a true statement. This Cat has a lot of ground to cover before I ever trust it again. So far in my life I have owned the following atv's a Honda 125, Yamaha Timberwolf, Kawasaki Bayou, Honda Foreman 450, Polaris 300 explorer, Polaris 400L, Yamaha Banshee, Polaris Sportsman 500, DS 650 and my Prowler 700 XTX. It has been by far the worst machine of the bunch and the most expensive. It gives me the feeling of pucking just thinking about it. After Tuesday it is going to be at the Dealer. I don't care if it takes a month to fix or they burn it out back. Either way something is going to happen.
Truly there cant only be a few reasons it wont fire.
1. Have you checked to see if you have good hot spark, check both the plug and the coil.
2. Try to start it with the plug in it, but with the plug wire off of the plug. Pull the plug and check to see if it is wet, to see if your getting fuel in to the cylinder.
3. Now if your not getting fuel being that you have an EFI bike, " i am not experienced with efi on these" Is there any possible way to check to see if your getting fuel to the injector.
4. Also one thing you can do, i know this is tough. Get your self a compression tester and a leak down tester. Pressure rise the cylinder and turn the engine over by hand. Watch the pressure on each stroke. You will be able to hear air coming out of your exhuast. This is to check that your valves are opening and closing and staying fully closed and opening all the way. With out having to pull the head.
5. The battery, i have a tractor that if the battery is the least bit weak it will crank the tractor but refuse to start. The starter will draw all the amperage that the battery has to put out and not send any to the coil. Even though the stator should be generating a charge for the coil but still wont start.
6. Also you got your different sensors you have to take into effect, how ever i would start with the basics and use the KISS method, keep it simple Stupid.
1. Have you checked to see if you have good hot spark, check both the plug and the coil.
2. Try to start it with the plug in it, but with the plug wire off of the plug. Pull the plug and check to see if it is wet, to see if your getting fuel in to the cylinder.
3. Now if your not getting fuel being that you have an EFI bike, " i am not experienced with efi on these" Is there any possible way to check to see if your getting fuel to the injector.
4. Also one thing you can do, i know this is tough. Get your self a compression tester and a leak down tester. Pressure rise the cylinder and turn the engine over by hand. Watch the pressure on each stroke. You will be able to hear air coming out of your exhuast. This is to check that your valves are opening and closing and staying fully closed and opening all the way. With out having to pull the head.
5. The battery, i have a tractor that if the battery is the least bit weak it will crank the tractor but refuse to start. The starter will draw all the amperage that the battery has to put out and not send any to the coil. Even though the stator should be generating a charge for the coil but still wont start.
6. Also you got your different sensors you have to take into effect, how ever i would start with the basics and use the KISS method, keep it simple Stupid.
i had this same issue when my battery didnt have enough CCA it had enough juice to turn over my rig but not enough to fire, i tested a new battery right next to mine and with the new battery it started up everytime, with the other one it had enough juice to crank but wouldnt fire even a little, like your saying..... my suggestion would be to try another battery!!!!
-Aksnopro
-Aksnopro
I would guess tps not being set, if you can just push the gas down a little and it will start. if you push the gas to the floor it shuts off the fuel in the efi machines. when you go to pick it up buy the jumper diog plug. they are only like $10.00. then if you have a problem again you can plug it in and see what sensor if messed up and we can help you get it going without all the frustrations. the biggest prob with just using a paper clip to jump the terminals is that if they loose connection for some reason you risk fryin the ecu.
I dropped it off at the dealer a few hours ago. I was going to drop it off on Tuesday, but it took me 2-3 hours of messing with it to start. I tried cycling the key, pumping the gas, cleaning the spark plug, charged the battery and nothing. It wasn't till I put it in my garage and warmed it up to 50 degrees it started. Now that I did that I started it after it sat all night and it fired up great, after work the same. I asked the dealer to put a Iridium plug in it and check the valves regardless of what they find. I hope if dosn't start for them in the morning. My luck it will. I will post more as I know more. I have high hopes for this. I have never used this dealer for service work. They seem to be a good, honest, small dealer ship that cares about my problems. I hope they get it figured out, not many Cat dealers around here. Keep you fingers crossed for me.
Cleaning the spark plugs do not help on the EFI units. When they're done they're done. They are resistor plugs also, so you can get spark holding away from the head. If you hold it against the head it will ground out. You should have tried to replace it first and I hate to say it but from the soiunds of it your dealer is not the most honest or knowledgable about the cats.IMO just going by what you posted.
Update, I spoke with the dealer last night. The machine started up for them just fine in the morning. They did say they talked to Arctic Cat tech support about the cold start issue. Cat told them that the 700 H1's have cold start problems when they get down bellow 25 degrees. Cat said the fix for this was to open the gap up on the spark plug. I had them install a new plug and check the valves,valves were good, they gaped the new plug bigger and we will see how it starts. I haven't picked it up, they haven't said they are done with it yet. Thought? Do you think this fixed anything? At this point I don't know. They were installing a NGK vs the stock Champion. My experience says that Champion sucks for powersports. Thanks again for thoughts.
Don't know if this helps at all Its been very cold here -35 at times my xtx will usually start once.....die and start right back up and stay running. I have not changed out the plugs from what it came with, but I can't see how a bigger gap will make that much of a difference! Anyway good luck!
I got her back! They checked the valves and they were good to go. They installed a NGK CR6E with a .30 thousands gap. I asked if the plug was too hot? They said Cat is specking them in the 2010's and Cats tech support told them to run this plug and gap. I will say it got down to 5 degree's last night and it started fine this morning. As long as the plug is not going to hurt it we have it fixed! I think, I hope, maybe. I did take it for a ride this afternoon and it worked just fine. I was thinking a NGK CR8E. Thoughts?
A CR6E is what goes in the 700 EFI not the H1 motor. CPR8E is what comes in the 700 H1 now. Blows me away that the techs at the dealership do not know this. If your happy then all is good. But I wouldn't run it very long with that plug. You're right that is pretty hot compared to what is supposed to be there.
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The CR6E is a hotter short electrode nose plug. On the CPR8E, the P in the destination stand for protruded nose, and is a colder plug to help carry away the heat from the protruded nose. Functionally they are the same plug and will not cause you any problems. Many run the CR7EIX which is the Iridium plug which results in better starting and idling for many. I wish NGK made a CPR?EIX in heat ranges 7 through 9. I always preferred the CPR versions since the protruded nose seems to burn cleaner with less fouling problems. In the pinned section under the topic jetting 101, you'll find information that shows you how to read the ground electrode on the plug and tailor the heat range for what your engine demands. Engine mods and or intake and exhaust mods may require a heat range that differs from the stock recommendation. Sparkplugs.Com is a great site for learning about plugs and see what will cross reference over to other brands. also lots cheaper prices then most other places for about any plug in any application.
On NGK plugs, lower number is hotter and if the plug has the protruded nose then a colder plug is ran
On NGK plugs, lower number is hotter and if the plug has the protruded nose then a colder plug is ran
OK guys now I need some help. All this spark plug talk is making my head spin. What would you recommend running CPR8E? Should I run a different plug in the summer than the winter? My machine starts great on the CR6E but that's a hot plug. Would I have problems with it in the summer? Thanks again for all the help!!
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In my opinion the CPR8E and the CR6E are functionally equivalent. Yes the CPR8E is two heat ranges colder because it has the extended nose electrode. Because the CR6E does not have the extended nose, it has to be a hotter running plug but a colder heat range plug to keep it burning clean. Look at the plugs you can see the difference.
Heat range is a number that reflects how fast the plug can carry away heat from the spark plug and transfer the heat to the cylinder head. If the plug is too cold, it carries away heat too fast and the plug can foul, if the plug is too hot, then not enough heat is carried away and the plug will wear quicker. In NGK plugs Higher the Heat range value the faster the plug carries away heat and the colder the plug electrode will burn And the Lower the heat range value then the slower the plug carries away heat and the plug electrode burns hotter.
American made plug are the opposite in heat range numbering from Japanese made plugs. On NGK the higher the higher the heat range value then the colder the plug burns, in Champion plugs the higher the heat range value is then the plug burns hotter
I think you just had a bad plug to begin with, as for plugs the CR6E or the CPR8E are both recommended plugs for your machine. I've seen several machines all with the same engine, some with the poor quality champion plugs, some with CPR8E, some with CR6E from the factory, they install probably what they get the best deal upon when ordering. this is in 400's all the way up to 950 Thundercats.
There is a method to read the color change on the ground strap to adjust the heat range for what your engine requires. Engine mods, exhaust and intake mods may require a different heat range then recommended for a stock engine. Reading the ground strap is easy. Covered in the Jetting 101 thread in the ATV pinned section. The best selection of multiple heat ranges is available from Denso. You can get heat ranges from IU20, IU22, IU24 & IU28. They are also iridium plugs which in my opinion is the best out there. Iridium in my opinion also allows and engine to start easier and idle smoother then a non Iridium plug. I'm running the IU22's in both my Tcat and 650H1. There is really nothing magical about spark plugs. As long as the thread diameter, Thread pitch, Thread length is the same and heat range is correct to match your engine with or without modifications it will work.
Heat range once again is only a number that represents how fast heat is transferred from the plug electrode to the cylinder head. Plug design may require a different heat range, Such as a CPR6E is NOT functionally equivalent to a CR6E, the CPR6E would burn out too easily in your engine because it would not carry the heat away fast enough and the plug electrode would burn away.
YOU HAVE NOW WORRIES with EITHER the CPR8E or the CR6E, try a CR7EIX sometime, you might like it better or the same plug from Denso is the UI-22
Heat range is a number that reflects how fast the plug can carry away heat from the spark plug and transfer the heat to the cylinder head. If the plug is too cold, it carries away heat too fast and the plug can foul, if the plug is too hot, then not enough heat is carried away and the plug will wear quicker. In NGK plugs Higher the Heat range value the faster the plug carries away heat and the colder the plug electrode will burn And the Lower the heat range value then the slower the plug carries away heat and the plug electrode burns hotter.
American made plug are the opposite in heat range numbering from Japanese made plugs. On NGK the higher the higher the heat range value then the colder the plug burns, in Champion plugs the higher the heat range value is then the plug burns hotter
I think you just had a bad plug to begin with, as for plugs the CR6E or the CPR8E are both recommended plugs for your machine. I've seen several machines all with the same engine, some with the poor quality champion plugs, some with CPR8E, some with CR6E from the factory, they install probably what they get the best deal upon when ordering. this is in 400's all the way up to 950 Thundercats.
There is a method to read the color change on the ground strap to adjust the heat range for what your engine requires. Engine mods, exhaust and intake mods may require a different heat range then recommended for a stock engine. Reading the ground strap is easy. Covered in the Jetting 101 thread in the ATV pinned section. The best selection of multiple heat ranges is available from Denso. You can get heat ranges from IU20, IU22, IU24 & IU28. They are also iridium plugs which in my opinion is the best out there. Iridium in my opinion also allows and engine to start easier and idle smoother then a non Iridium plug. I'm running the IU22's in both my Tcat and 650H1. There is really nothing magical about spark plugs. As long as the thread diameter, Thread pitch, Thread length is the same and heat range is correct to match your engine with or without modifications it will work.
Heat range once again is only a number that represents how fast heat is transferred from the plug electrode to the cylinder head. Plug design may require a different heat range, Such as a CPR6E is NOT functionally equivalent to a CR6E, the CPR6E would burn out too easily in your engine because it would not carry the heat away fast enough and the plug electrode would burn away.
YOU HAVE NOW WORRIES with EITHER the CPR8E or the CR6E, try a CR7EIX sometime, you might like it better or the same plug from Denso is the UI-22
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