The motor is put in a small two-seat commuter car in japan, it is not imported to the US. Your problem sounds like burned rings. I've had Geo Metro engines the I have rebuilt, this is loosely based on that, Not a Geo Tracker as you said. It is unfortunately a little tempermental to overheating which you somehow had happen to your sled. "[(after warming the engine plenty) enough so that the drive belt got smoked a bit.]" Yea thats not the drive belt bud, thats the motor getting so hot it almost seized!

The cams are run by a timing chain and they never "jump" a tooth and they never break. Your out of luck and you can quit laughing, and go make nice to the dealer who found it, he may be the one who has a short block in his inventory for you.

 

Smokeless I also have the 500+ page sevice manual which is the same as your CD and I don't know what your seeing but it is very detailed, I guess at 500+ pages it better be

 

Smokless: I find it hard to believe your engine is pooched after 2000miles. I have two of these sleds with 8000 and 10,000 miles and never had any problems. Seems kind of odd that it would just up and quit and all cylinders would be low on compression.
Best of luck with your quest to find the problem.

 

ceyoopers thanks for putting that link up, that is a neat little car. It looks like a glorified go-kart. I guess I agree with the previous posts. I too find it very hard to believe you cooked your engine, as was said earlier unless your not telling us everything. So trying to dissect your statements, here are your words; "I was reving the motor"; " I gave it strong throttle mounting the trailer"; "(after warming the engine plenty) enough so that the drive belt got smoked a bit"; "Then the motor quit"
These are the statements that are making me wonder what really happened here. And now your guy tells you there is only 50 to 60 psi in each of the three cylinders and pretty evenly tells me the same thing, whatever it was happened to all three. Now can this guys gauge be incorrect, sure. Then My question if thats true is why won't it start. If I ignore all those words I put in red would my thinking still be the same? I guess you have to tell us more cause I really am at a loss.

 

I think a lot of the things I would have said (not a Geo Tracker, chain not belt etc) have been covered above.

So...why not check the compression your self? The testers are not that expensive and you would know for sure if your dealer is feeding you a line of bull or not.

In my experience, when you cook an engine usually you don't see that kind of uniform compression loss. It more like one is really bad and maybe two others are OK or at least not as bad. Often times you are told not to look at the number so much but the variation between cylinder when looking at compression.

Now if you do find that you are low across the board I would start by pulling the head. You might find a bad head gasket or a crack in the head.

Good luck, I wouldn't loose hope yet.

K

 

Thanks for the replies.

This is a 2002...no turbo and no abuse.

First off, I have never been ABLE to overheat these sleds...they just won't do it, unless the temp guage is way off. Remember I have two of them 2 digits apart serial numbers. I love these sleds and they have been way way more reliable than anything else I have owned, including yamaha, and polaris.

And no there is no chance I would take it back to that dealer who says the engine is toast. Remember it ran fine, no sign of weakness or poor compression until the engine just quit...engines that have fried rings don't behave that way...they run poorly and with the few miles I have had on this sled, just not possible.

Now the dealer said he checked the compression on all three jugs and they were all uniformly low at about 50 pounds each give or a take a few pounds. Book says 160 or thereabouts.

I did find a 3 cylinder suzuki motor that was made in the 90's that DOES have a rubber timing belt, it is called a "carry-all". So that was why I asked. Rubber can go to hell all by itself, metal ones rarely do that with such low miles because they wear out and not crack and fall apart.

I am at a loss for the low compression, and I do own a compression tester, but I am 600 miles away from the sled right now and it will be awhile before I can get to it to test it myself, which I intend on doing.

But the cd I have is NOT the same as the 500 page manual, and many of the procedures are poorly illustrated. They don't describe the fuel delivery process very well, and in some places it suggests that the fuel system has a regulator...which I can't find in the fish files, or in the other sources. I know the sled has a fuel pressure switch on the throttle body, but that is the only thing I can find outside of the fuel pump itself.

When I said I rev'd it up, this was a load on the trailer rev...not a got stuck rev. It was short and sweet and yes the belt probably is toast now, but it is the ORIGINAL BELT so that's no big deal.

Since I don't want to take the engine out to tear it down, I will work from the top down...because if it does have poor head compression, something gave way in an instant, and that is why I suspect that it is timing since all jugs are uniformly low.

So right now, I am guessing timing...with the above causing me to think that way.

I just was wondering if there was a decompression release to aid in starting, which I would not know about (my atv's and atc's had them) and or the rubber timing belt.

If anyone else has any ideas, I would appreciate your thoughts.

I will check out the website suggested and maybe that will get me a bit closer to what happened.

 

"did find a 3 cylinder suzuki motor that was made in the 90's that DOES have a rubber timing belt"

"I just was wondering if there was a decompression release to aid in starting, which I would not know about (my atv's and atc's had them) and or the rubber timing belt"

Let me say this again IT DOESN'T HAVE A TIMING BELT so you can forget about that analogy. It does not have a compression release thats for a pull starter. It's a car engine that car did't need one either.

"something gave way in an instant" That something would have to happen to all three.

"I know the sled has a fuel pressure switch on the throttle body, but that is the only thing I can find outside of the fuel pump itself" And as you can see buy the detailed CD you have the fuel pump is in the tank.

"I do own a compression tester"
so I guess I'm at a loss why you wouldn't have just unscrewed the plugs and checked this yourself in the first place, would have taken all of a few minutes?

So now the compression test after it gets closer than 600 miles away we will have to see what else possably has to tell us. I'm curious what your tester will say.

 

Okay, let me make my questions and statements a bit clearer.

I am a long way away from the sled and CANT put the compression gauge on the unit, as I had to leave town the same day I got the results back from the dealer.

The CD manual I have and also not at my current finger tips was very scetchy with details about the fuel delivery. As my earlier description says...it doesn't sound like it did before nor does it sound like the twin does now...much longer to run time and sounds different, but it does have delivery since I checked that first based upon the different sound.

I also know that the fuel tank contains the pump as most modern throttle body fed machines are nowadays.

Given the info from the dealer, perhaps there are two things going on here....both in fuel delivery and in compression, but if this motor was running on such low compression it sure didn't sound like it and had plenty of power...no different than the other twin sled. and ran strong right up until the loading of the trailer.

I am searching for a reason for the low compression and do NOT believe for a moment that the motor is done....not enough miles and it was used modestly....that's why the low miles.

I am assuming the dealer didn't lie to me about the compression, and he said he put two compression gauges on the motor because he didn't believe the compression test either.

Now you are telling me that there is NO timing belt? All gear drive system? Not at all what my CD says, but then there are things in there that pertain to 2 strokes and not the 4 stroke motor too, so another reason not to trust the CD. Also the other suzy motors allhave rubber timing belts...not chain...not gear.

I am hoping someone has gotten past the sparkplugs and torn one of these machines down...knows a little something about them and can perhaps give me a reason why the compression is low, if infact that is true.

It is going to be difficult for me to put time in on fixing it right now and I would like to not leave the machine all winter long til summer to tear into and figure it out.

That's why I am asking questions from anyone who has a detailed field manual, or anyone who has been inside some of these motors even if it is not a cat sled.

 

http://www.arcticcatpartshouse.com/arctic-cat-parts.aspx?aribrand=ARC#Home

"Now you are telling me that there is NO timing belt? All gear drive system? Not at all what my CD says"

Maybe you better not look at that CD because I just punched your sled in and if you do the same you will see for yourself

Heres a link to your camshaft drive chain, enter your year, and model and go to the engine, then the cam drive, then you will see that it's a chain driven cam drive (just like I said twice before)

 

It's kind of hard to trouble shoot when you don't have the machine in front of you.

It does have a timing chain. Do a search for the Suzuki K6A, I'm pretty sure this is the engine closest related to our T660s.

Just a thought, but the pumps sound really off and run for a different amount of time when the battery is going dead. Just a long shot but what's your battery like? Wouldn't be to hard to swap it from the running machine to the one that isn't.

The dealer should have picked up on this, like I said it's a long shot.

Loosing all three cylinders still strikes me as odd. Pull the valve cover and see what's under there. Make sure the cams are turning and check to see if the chain is taught.

If it is out of time like you think it could be bad as this is an interference engine.

If compression is the root of your problem then you are going to have to dig and find out what's going on. Start with the valve cover then if nothing obvious pops out at you go for the head.

K

 

kopeck you can see the chain if you pull the oil cap, don't even need to pull the cam cover, I just looked at mine

 

That's true, didn't think of that but you can't see much, I would still pull the valve cover.

Pulling the valve cover you really have nothing to loses. If you do it right it should go right back together with out the need for new gaskets etc.

The head, that's another story.

K

 

ya I guess pulling the cam cover isn't all that much work and you can't really see much for the timing , you be halfway there though

 

apparently Elvis has left the building

 

Have you checked the fuel line in the tank? I recall fuel line deterioration issues from an old post requiring the tank to be nearly full to run, to prevent sucking air. Apparently you can pull the tank fuel line through the fuel cap with a hanger bent properly to take a look. This might explain the long time for fuel pump shut-off during key-on.

 

Okay...long time since I had a chance to check back here. And read the suggestions.

First the battery has been replaced with a better one that has more power and is a gell cell....so the battery has lots of cranking effort...plus I pulled a car battery and jumped it to assist just because I know these machines need a good high voltage to run...still no difference in the long wind up of the fuel pump.

Manual suggests checking the pressure regulator, but I don't find any thing like that in the parts fish...or in the very cd that shows a complete tear down of the motor or fuel diagram...only a sensor...which the trouble shooting section names in a different catagory under sensors. No pressure regulator to be found...

I did NOT hear about the line deterioration in the fuel tank...and even tho I checked that there is fuel delivery, if there is a crack and it is allowing only partial pressure...that surely could be the culprit.

I have already obtained a replacement fuel pump which will require the stock unit to be disassem bled, but it only cost $25 including shipping so not out much if the pump is not the issue.

I did not know I could check the timing chain from the oil fill...so I will see that, and my next thing would be to pull the valve cover and see what's going on there....as I am still having a hard time believing that the compression is shot when the thing ran so well just prior to quitting...and that would not prevent it from starting anyway, just lost power...which it never exhibited even one.

I have not gotten back to the machine to test the compression, but I am still betting something doesn't sound right with the dealer testing showing all three cylinders down to 50 pounds...unless the valves are not synned out right and then that could cause the no start too.

Does anyone know about the fuel pressure regulator the cd suggests as a possible cause...where it is and also what the proper pressure is supposed to be? Remember it is flowing fuel from the hose to the fuel rail...just not sure if it is high enough flow or correct pressure.

Any help on this is appreciated....think I am on my own fixing it cause I just don't think the AC mechanics are up to speed on this stuff....more like a real automotive mechanic is what is necessary t trouble shoot this one down.

 

well if we go back to basics lets just start over, lets get compression readings first and go from there.

 

Hey Smokless, just curious as to whether you found a solution to the problem?

 

Haven't gotten back to Michigan to test this thing out. I did buy a compression tester tho and as soon as I get back there, I will get busy on it. I also thought of a way to test the fuel delivery. I can pull the hoses on both machines and cross hook up the hoses (via an extension on both) and this might tell the tale of whether I am getting enough fuel pressure.

Stuck down south and won't be back for several months yet. No sledding for me this year.:angry:

I will post back when I get working on it.

 

I know this is an old thread but did you ever figure out the low compression problem?

 

Well, my down south stay has been extended....and I have not touched the sled as my returns have been short and with no time.

I am pretty sure from all that I have gleaned on this is that the fuel line is a problem. These lines were never designed to be fully immersed in fuel that contains ethanol. Ethanol will break down the hose and once you suck air your done because you need full pressure to make the machine go.

It has been two years, and tho I did start the twin once last summer when I was there for a few days, I have since pulled the batteries on my sleds and brought them with me to keep charged so both sleds have been sitting now for two years.

I will need to drain the fuel and put some fresh in then I will pull one up to the other and extend the fuel line to eliminate the fuel line issue. I expect that will fix it...and if so, I will replace the fuel lines in both sleds.

I promise not to forget and will post what I find.

I appreciate the responses from those guys on here that have contributed.

 

I never run ethanol blended fuel in my 660, just plain 87 octane regular unleaded.