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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Last year I finally made the jump. All I have been riding is old greasy triples. I have put a good amount of miles on numerous Crossfires that friends have, and ridden a few Procross sleds (those ones only on trail).

I wasn't too interested in an 800 twin so I picked up a mildly worked ZR9000. And it is an absolute riot on the trail (pun intended). It rails the corners, and on the straights it is just unreal. But off trail it is the wonkiest sled I have ridden (short of a Nytro MTX). It has a Cobra 1.35" track with studs.

My two issues are this. It either will not carve or it will send one ski to China. My yard is way down level from the road, so you have to side hill for a long ways to make it over to the trail. I had no issues on my old 98 ZRT. I could stand on the top board, counter steer and that was it. And that was just a 121" with a 1" Hacksaw. That same spot, I can't side hill the ZR9000 for the life of me. It absolutely refuses to lift the bottom ski. I'm 205lbs, I expected if I could side hill an old triple I should be able to a new one. But I just can't.

Then in a fresh field if I go to carve as soon as a ski breaks the surface, the sled just transitions so fast that I have no time to react and get it back on balance. It just tips on it's side and I fall off or the track comes too far out of the snow. If I can keep it from doing that, it goes through more than any other trail sled I have ridden on. I had it stuck in the ditch where the snow was past my waist. It was stuck because the stupid ski dipped under and just flipped it on it's side. But 30 seconds of scooping out the front a-arm pockets and moving the track over and it drove right out.

I'm just puzzled at how it flips on it side so quickly. I've tried changing the front clicker adjustments, but no real change. I feel like I'm crazy and am going to get the "you just need to learn how to ride". But I haven't ever had any issues carving on any other sled, even ones heavier than this. It feels like all of the weight is so high up that as soon as it goes it just instantly transitions. But yet on trail is is absolutely planted and doesn't feel like it is top heavy.

Sorry a bit of a rant. But because of this I find myself scared to ride in any powder and I didn't have that fear on the old short track low lug triple.
 

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Air craft carriers don’t carve well in deep snow. It’s the nature of the beast. You also have to get up forward on the sled and it will carve. The coupled skid and weight distribution of that giant 4 stroke is working against you.
 

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Without going too crazy, you could move the skis in and unhook one side of the stabilizer. Easy to try and the price is perfect.
 

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Well, one question, have you adjusted the shock setup?

Imagine the sled as having 4 contact points, the skis and the front skid and rear skid. If you imagine putting scales under each point you want a rather even weight distribution on flat ground, and most of it should be on the skid distributed well on full throttle in good traction conditions.

That and the rider-forward stance of modern chassis means a heftier guy above about 165lbs or so should usually have his handlebars all the way forwards and a mid to high pre-load on the skid and low preload on the skis. At least that is a starting point, you may require fatter springs on the skid.

Because the skid is supposed to be able to put enough ground pressure compared to the skis that you basically ride it more like a water sled where the skis are just suggestions on where you are going whilst on the throttle, compared to the old style chassis sleds. Because the older sleds weighed quite a bit more and had quite a bit less torque, so they usually had one ski in strong contact with the ground when sidehilling, whereas modern sleds have far less contact on the ski when sidehilling.

And then the skis only really get a firm plant when you are decelerating, because efficient trail riding (or cross-country riding) has you either on the throttle or on the brake (one finger on the brake is a good habit to get into which you maybe don't have from an older chassis style). If you put your shock setup to be neutral then you spin your track on acceleration and don't get proper ski grip on deceleration, leading to understeer and oversteer like a madman.
 

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Sounds like you need some C&A pro XCS skis.
XCS will definitely carve... but stock up on the tiger balm, lol I had XCS on a couple 137-in ZR 8000s and it definitely carved. Steering was serious though, and I fear a 9000 would wear you down over a long day; something to think about. I have since tried the XPTs and found them to be lacking just a little in precision (noticeably lighter effort). I installed Bergstrom Ski Savers (essentially an extra 1/4" of keel), and now they're perfect!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
It's been a while, I forgot to check back on this :p

Air craft carriers don’t carve well in deep snow. It’s the nature of the beast. You also have to get up forward on the sled and it will carve. The coupled skid and weight distribution of that giant 4 stroke is working against you.
Look at my signature. All I have ever ridden are air craft carriers. I could lift a ski with my old triples on flat ground on hard pack, even with their weight. With this a hard packed trail on the side of a ditch I can't even do that on this, which means it keeps wanting to nose into the ditch.

In fact not only could I carve in powder on an old triple or lift it on hard pack. But an AGLT triple (way wider) with Powder Hound 8 ski's (way wider than stock ski's). That should be about as difficult of a sled as their is to lift a ski on a hard packed trail and I still was able to do it. People stopped riding triples long ago because of their weight, I never had an issue with it (so that's why this shocked me).

Well, one question, have you adjusted the shock setup?
I shortened the quote up on this to save space. I did mess a bit with the clicker settings on the front shocks as it seems thats where the issue was. But any of the 3 settings did not seem to change much.

Sounds like you need some C&A pro XCS skis.
I have some Powder Hound 8 ski's that are quite a bit wider than stock. They may have to go on, but sadly their are older AC Green, so quite a bit darker. That should help it in powder so it doesn't just drop one side so quick that it is uncontrollable.

But my issue is on hard pack off angled spots (ditches) I can't lift the bottom ski, and in powder it actually carves to an uncontrollable level too quickly.
 

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But yet on trail is is absolutely planted and doesn't feel like it is top heavy.
I quoted part of what you said about the sled's handling.
The weight distribution is different from the ZRT. One of the main factors is height of weight. It sounds like you have a good setup for trail cornering with the weight up higher. You are fighting that issue when you want to "roll" the sled in deeper snow.
It depends on the direction you go with getting it to roll. More ski float may not help without other changes.
Clicker adjustment will not help much. It is really just changing the speed of compression. Spring pressure and preload changes the amount.
For giggles, try backing off the ski preload and unhooking the torsion bar. It will handle dramatically different on the sidehill and on the trail. You may not like the compromise, but it gives you a reference point for adjustment.
 
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I shortened the quote up on this to save space. I did mess a bit with the clicker settings on the front shocks as it seems thats where the issue was. But any of the 3 settings did not seem to change much.
Well the clicker settings on shocks are basically just preload (sometimes also fiddles the compression and rebound a bit). I can adjust the preload on my sled up as much as I want but if the springs started out so soft that I start bottoming out on mogul trails I will still bottom out on mogul trails after I maxed the preload out.

You might also want to consider to keep an eye out on what snow conditions you actually have. We've had to start chopping lugs here near the coast in Norway because the increasing number of winter days that are above freezing temperature turn the snow really hard and slippery to those soft powder paddles that just end up gently stroking the hard snow under the upper layer of soft snow. Doesn't matter what we do to suspension or power or technique if our powder-paddles just gently stroke the hard snow under the layer of powder. So we're cutting the softer tips off the lugs. Its that or washing out 100% of the time when side-hilling fresh powder.
 

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I would stop comparing it to an old triple, this sled is nothing like those.
This sled was engineered to be planted in the trail. So you'll have to reverse engineer it if you want to be a side hiller. And then you'll be giving up alot oh the trail.
In my opinion you're fighting a losing battle. It sounds like you're trying to sidehill a turbo zr on hardpack ditch. It's just not going to happen. It doesn't matter if you could do that on a zrt, totally different machine.
 

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Well the clicker settings on shocks are basically just preload (sometimes also fiddles the compression and rebound a bit). I can adjust the preload on my sled up as much as I want but if the springs started out so soft that I start bottoming out on mogul trails I will still bottom out on mogul trails after I maxed the preload out.

You might also want to consider to keep an eye out on what snow conditions you actually have. We've had to start chopping lugs here near the coast in Norway because the increasing number of winter days that are above freezing temperature turn the snow really hard and slippery to those soft powder paddles that just end up gently stroking the hard snow under the upper layer of soft snow. Doesn't matter what we do to suspension or power or technique if our powder-paddles just gently stroke the hard snow under the layer of powder. So we're cutting the softer tips off the lugs. Its that or washing out 100% of the time when side-hilling fresh powder.
Huh? Clickers affect preload... not quite. Preload collars adjust preload and clickers (typically) adjust low-speed compression damping
 
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