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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello! Since i upgraded my XF9000 with a 280hp tune my track seem to be slipping badly sometimes at full throttle in deeper snow. Do these have no slip drive sprockets from the factory?

I have adjusted the track by the book, checked the transmission chain and sprockets, new oil, belt looks very good, no visible damage in the track and it still does this. Its like a loud ratcheting sound and you can almost feel the track slipping in the chassis.

Or could it be something else?
 

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What year? Some of the later chassis updates did not use extroverts.
You can do a quick visual check to see if you have extrovert drive sprockets. I think that is what you mean by no slip sprockets.
Basically, the drive sprockets would have teeth that protrude into the track window. Regular drivers on Cat will have two wings that extend across the track windows and grab the inner lugs.

Your description does sound like it could be track ratcheting. It is possible to have something else happening, but good idea to verify drivers. Does it happen with hard acceleration off the line? I have also seen it happen going through whoops with good traction under hard acceleration and braking.
It is good to identify the cause. Ratcheting usually gets worse as the components start to wear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Its a 2019 model.

Yes extrovert drives seem to be the same thing! They are called No Slip drives in sweden.

The sled is currently stored quite far away from me so i dont really have the opportunity to look right now, i guess ill have too look when its time to take it home. The main reason i asked if it was factory was i couldnt seem to find extrovert drives for it anywhere, but i actually found some last night.

Yes it feels exactly like track ratcheting. It never happens on flat ground even if im launching and accelerating hard. Only happens in deep snow, mostly while wheeling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Lol i actually had to do an errand close to where the snowmobile is stored today so I could swing by and check.

Seems like it already has extroverts, so this has to be something else after all.

368516


The introvert(?) drives seem a little worn though, but with extroverts it shouldn't ratchet right?

It really feels like something is hitting or ratcheting in the tunnel.
 

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Good to confirm the extroverts (no slip) drives. It would be rare to have them ratchet.
Thanks for the picture. The extrovert teeth don't look like they are showing wear from extreme slipping. Some of the marks look like debris catching in the teeth?
That being said, I'm trying to figure out why the track isn't tight against the drive sprocket diameter on the left side bottom? With the track angle and driver diameter, the extrovert teeth should be fully in the window. It is a little hard to tell exactly, but it looks like there is more surface contact wear on the left driver sprocket. Sorta like the clips are hitting harder and on the inside of the extrovert teeth.

Some other questions to consider.
I see the limiters and anti stab wheels. Guessing that you are running the track pretty loose. How is your skid alignment? Tailstands with that setup will push the track tight into the skid alignment. It is just a thought. I see absolutely no contact wear on the left outside of the track. That is pretty rare on a machine with some ride time. Do you see any odd wear/contact inside the tunnel? Start by looking right over the upper idler wheels for track rubbing patterns.
One other aspect of a super loose track and limiters and doing wheelies. It changes the contact area on your drivers. The front of the skid pushes the track away from the bottom of the sprockets. Maybe a combination of variables?
 

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1. You say track is adjusted according to spec; what spec? IMO, majority of go-fast 998 guys run tighter than factory manual states. In fact, TD (Turbo Dynamics) recommends NO SAG below slide rails. Tighter is faster according to their testing.
2. Any chance track lugs hitting the heat exchangers?
3. Any chance chain in drive case is too loose and is ratcheting on sprockets? Consensus is 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 turns out from as tight as your hand can make it.
4. Not sure how your sled is sitting for the pic you posted but why are limiter straps so loose?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
favoritos: I have checked the tunnel for any signs of rubbing but i couldnt find any. Maybe as you say its a combination of variables. What is skid alignment?

Turboflash:
1. My friend who used to work at Arctic Cat set it up for me, and he tightened it up pretty good so i guess it was really loose prior. But im confident it still has some sag below the slides. Maybe the track is still too loose then, im gonna try tightening it to no sag and see what it does. Too bad there are a couple of months until winter.
2. No, i have checked and there is no sign of rubbing.
3. The chain should not be loose, i serviced it mid season and tightened it the way you described.
4. The sled just sits on the floor in a barn, so i dont really know, Should they be tighter when the sled is just sitting?
 

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favoritos: I have checked the tunnel for any signs of rubbing but i couldnt find any. Maybe as you say its a combination of variables. What is skid alignment?

Turboflash:
1. My friend who used to work at Arctic Cat set it up for me, and he tightened it up pretty good so i guess it was really loose prior. But im confident it still has some sag below the slides. Maybe the track is still too loose then, im gonna try tightening it to no sag and see what it does. Too bad there are a couple of months until winter.
2. No, i have checked and there is no sign of rubbing.
3. The chain should not be loose, i serviced it mid season and tightened it the way you described.
4. The sled just sits on the floor in a barn, so i dont really know, Should they be tighter when the sled is just sitting?
How many miles on sled? Tracks do stretch quite a bit in the first 1500 miles. Just check again to make sure it has very little (prefer almost none but no more than 1/2") sag below slide rails.
Chains also stretch quite a bit when new. Just to be sure, you should probably check it again. Turn in as tight as your hand can do, then back out about 1-1/4 turns, then tighten lock nut.
Did someone loosen limiter straps? I have a 137 skid and when sled is sitting flat on cement floor, they're snug, not hanging loose like your pic shows.
 

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You can do checking before riding.
Use a strap (or stand) to lift the back end up in the air.
It may very well be just a loose track if you are seeing sag without pulling the track down. @Turboflash , is right on with track stretching. Some tracks are super bad in the early miles. I am surprised you do not have any slip on hard launches or braking at speed. Those are common if the track is loose. Chaincase issues would be easier to verify without opening the case if braking cause ratcheting. (Brakes are after the chaincase.)
Verify track tension first. It may be close which brings up another potential test.

I'm not sure how gutsy you are with running the track up to speed in the air? You could test the brake theory to narrow down potential chaincase problems without opening the case. (There isn't enough load resistance to test acceleration ratcheting.) You need to have the sled solidly up in the air and use super high track speed and hard braking. A loose track will balloon and jump over the drives with hard braking. I wouldn't recommend that move to faint of heart. I've done it in short bursts to prevent hyfax heating. The potentential for disaster is high if things go wrong with that much track speed.

Skid/track alignment can also be done with the back up in the air. (You don't need much track speed for this testing. ;) ) Some skids are not perfectly square in the chassis. I like to compare the front and back of the skid against the track clips. It works fine to balance between the two if your skid is fairly close. If you find a big variance, then you need to dig deeper.
One note to the process. Start the motor to spin the track and don't use the brakes to stop the track. Just let it coast down to stop. That will give you an accurate measurement of the true alignment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Turboflash: Im not sure about the mileage right now but i think its around 1500 miles actually, maybe a little bit more or less. Yes i will definatly check the track tension again, i would think its probably too loose still.
As for chain tension, im pulling the case cover before the start of this season and installing the DMC top gear upgrade as well as the brass fork pads, so then i can check the chain and tension thoroughly.
I have no idea about the straps, they seem to be installed in the top hole wich is the loosest setting, and from what i can read they should be, as you said, tight when sitting on flat ground. So maybe i should also try and put the in the middle hole at least.

favoritos: That sh*t sounds scary 😂 I will start with verifying track tension, chain tension and tightening the limiter straps, and also checking the alignment. Hopefully one of these things solves the issue.
 

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Good luck, and keep us posted.
I honestly wouldn't recommend the high speed track stand stuff to many people. The Darwin laws might weed out a couple.
Downtime is a bummer deal and I can't ride from home. I'm sorta forced to do some odd shop testing or tear down to prevent downtime.

Track tension is generally pretty easy to check and extroverts usually give you more leeway on tension. I often do trailside adjustments when tracks are fairly new. Break in rides have often been 6-800 miles, so I'm well into break in stretch with some tracks. I also like to check at home when everything is melted.
I ran extroverts for years and it was rare to see them jump. (You would see a track that loose just by lifting the back.
The newer ZR sleds have gone away from the extrovert drives. They are super picky on track tension with standard drives. That is when I do the testing up in the air. The old specs for tension are actually too loose and they still jump adjusted to those numbers. I have learned to adjust just tight enough without cranking the track banjo tight.

I've had chaincase problems happen too. They generally start with a feeling like the track jumping. Holeshots are a great way to highlight the issue. A chain that starts jumping won't make it long. I've tried slow and easy limps back to base. I have not made it every time. It is possible to have a chaincase acting up, but I'd be surprised if you've rode some mile after the problem surfaced.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thank you, and i will! Its a couple of months until the riding season starts so you will have to wait a while for the update lol. But im going to clean out the garage of car and motorcycle parts this weekend and pull the sled home soon to start working on it so that it is ready when the snow hits.

Its definatly not that loose that its noticable when lifting the rear, so it shouldnt really be a problem. I have also had extroverts in the past and never had a slipping issue. Although i dont know if things act differently when you send 280 4 stroke turbo horsepower through them.

Yes i have ridden it quite long since this started, and also driven it quite hard. So it feels like if the chain ratchets it should not have survived for this long.

Oh well, i will update you as i go along and checking things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hello again!

I have now pulled the chaincase cover and the chain was definatly not too loose. I also checked all the gears and so on and installed a DMC top gear as well as brass pads for the reverse fork.

As for the track, right now it sits like this:

Motor vehicle Automotive tire Wheel Product Tire

Motor vehicle Automotive tire Train Wheel Bumper


So if I follow Turbo Dynamics recommendations I can tighten it quite a bit more. Hope this solves the issue.
 

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That's too loose even if you go by PEFI's video (https://precisionefi.com/blogs/tech-guide/998-track-adjustment-video).
If you go by what TD says in their 998 performance guide, it should not hang at all when on stand.
Here is what TD says: (- Make sure you have a tight track (must not hang at all when lifted off ground, must be hard to push off the front bogey wheel). It is highly preferable to have a 4 wheel kit upgrade to maintain reliable track tension especially when running high power and or fast speed. Running a loose track will rob lots of top speed (as track baloons from centrifugal forces). Also loose track can cause ratchening of track drivers which will damage them and or the track. Radar running require a VERY tight track as high speed cause expansion.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I set tension now so there is no visible slack beneath the rails when on stand, but I can still push it down a bit easily with my hand (not at the front boggie wheel, didnt try that), hopefully this does the trick.

Still have to wait a while before trying though, its snowing today here but it will probably be gone by tomorrow ☹
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
A little update. We have gotten some snow now and i have been able to test a little bit with the new track tension setup. It feels like it launches harder and accelerates a bit faster. No ratcheting so far! But still no deep snow so ill have to wait a bit for the real test.
 

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Glad to hear the update.
 
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