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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First let me say that I have watched this forum for a while and I am very impressed with the civil attitude that mostly prevails here. I have been sledding since 1968 and have progressed form Ski-Doos, Merc (still have a 76 440 ST), Polaris, and Cat since a 97 ZR 580. The current newer model stable consists of a 03 F7 SP and a 06 CF7 SP. I rode only the CF last year in northern WI and left the FC down south as a spare. This year,however, we had far better snow in the south (about an hour south of LaCrosse) and I did most of my riding on the old Firecat including a 400 mile solo ride to our cabin near Three Lakes. On this trip I was thinking that Cat should really still be building this sled in a limited way. My son owns a 07 F8 SP and I will not bash his sled in any way but it just does not have the light reponsive feel the old Firecats had.

My challenge to Cat is---why not build the the 440 racer with the EPA compliant 600? Cat has already scored some marketing points withRobby and Tucker on the sled but the new F sled has won nothing yet noteworthy on the track. (The only two races that really count I feel are the Red Lake 500 and the Soo but that's another story.) Polaris is building the RR so why can't Cat do the same? We would get rider forward, a chain case, the new skid frame, and less weight. If buyers wanted the big inch motors then buy a new F. The tooling exists too! Cat once brought back the old 700 motor so why not surprise us and bring back the Firecat racer!

Just my two cents.
 

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I am not sure but I think that new race sleds have to be some type of a production sled (500 units or so) which tells me AC is coming out with a new race sled so there will be some type of a production sled like Polaris did this year. I am hearing rumors of a new sled coming out so we shall see
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jjb @ Apr 14 2007, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I am not sure but I think that new race sleds have to be some type of a production sled (500 units or so) which tells me AC is coming out with a new race sled so there will be some type of a production sled like Polaris did this year. I am hearing rumors of a new sled coming out so we shall see[/b]
ISR rules have always been x-number of units produced in order to race a given sled. Does NOT mean consumer sleds, just total number of sleds produced for sale....to racers, etc......

The new number for the upcoming year is down from 500 units to 300 units. Again, these 300 DO NOT have to be consumer units.

I wouldn't expect a consumer model of the new race sled until model yr 2008.....maybe a Jan mid-year release ????
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I guess my thought was a clear a mud. The thought was that Arctic could have built the Sno Pro 440 as a 600 stocker for consumer purchase as an 07 and 08 model until the new sled becomes available"someday." This would have given the customer looking for a lighter machine with actual racing roots an alternative to the new F's. I really think they would have sold a lot of these but I guess we'll never know.
 

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I agree with the idea.0

The topic would get much more support in the Firecat forum.

Some people will take a weight penalty for increased ride/handling.

Some won't.
 

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The 08 Sno Pro is a 300 build that will go to racers first and whatever is left consumers can buy. It is coming with around a 5 gallon fuel tank, but will have about a 10.6 gallon available for Oval/Enduro and Cross Country guys.
 

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Quite frankly I dont think the market is there. The majority of snowmobilers are TRAIL riders. The market for a $11,000+ 600CC sled just isnt there. This is why the 600RR is a limited build spring order only sled. Polaris will only build the quantity spring ordered...that means its NOT a big money maker.

I just don't see the market. Not to mention that sno pros are NOT good trail sleds...they are ditch bangers, they aren't made to rail through trails at 60+mph, they are tippy...Again you are dealing with a small niche market.

Would I love to have a consumer version Sno Pro chassis sled...sure, but I wouldn't pay the kind of coin a sled like that would demand.
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sledsearcher @ Apr 24 2007, 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Quite frankly I dont think the market is there. The majority of snowmobilers are TRAIL riders. The market for a $11,000+ 600CC sled just isnt there. This is why the 600RR is a limited build spring order only sled. Polaris will only build the quantity spring ordered...that means its NOT a big money maker.

I just don't see the market. Not to mention that sno pros are NOT good trail sleds...they are ditch bangers, they aren't made to rail through trails at 60+mph, they are tippy...Again you are dealing with a small niche market.

Would I love to have a consumer version Sno Pro chassis sled...sure, but I wouldn't pay the kind of coin a sled like that would demand.[/b]


not to be an ?...but...good thing you live in the us because that is exactly what it cost for a 600cc sled up here in canada...all brands are in the 11000-13000 price range not including taxes

the all loving firecat is exactly the sled you say people would not be in the market for.it was a great trail sled if you drove it like you stole it ...as the saying goes.it was tippy as you say...it was a ditch banger.....and they were probably cats greatest selling sled

lastly,the firecat was based on the sno pro race sled of the day......so i would think that it would be a great selling sled and would guess that polaris sells mor of them than they themselves are expecting..
i think cat will be wishing they did the same this year and bet you will see one in 08
 
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bad brad @ Apr 24 2007, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sledsearcher @ Apr 24 2007, 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Quite frankly I dont think the market is there. The majority of snowmobilers are TRAIL riders. The market for a $11,000+ 600CC sled just isnt there. This is why the 600RR is a limited build spring order only sled. Polaris will only build the quantity spring ordered...that means its NOT a big money maker.

I just don't see the market. Not to mention that sno pros are NOT good trail sleds...they are ditch bangers, they aren't made to rail through trails at 60+mph, they are tippy...Again you are dealing with a small niche market.

Would I love to have a consumer version Sno Pro chassis sled...sure, but I wouldn't pay the kind of coin a sled like that would demand.[/b]


not to be an ?...but...good thing you live in the us because that is exactly what it cost for a 600cc sled up here in canada...all brands are in the 11000-13000 price range not including taxes

the all loving firecat is exactly the sled you say people would not be in the market for.it was a great trail sled if you drove it like you stole it ...as the saying goes.it was tippy as you say...it was a ditch banger.....and they were probably cats greatest selling sled

lastly,the firecat was based on the sno pro race sled of the day......so i would think that it would be a great selling sled and would guess that polaris sells mor of them than they themselves are expecting..
i think cat will be wishing they did the same this year and bet you will see one in 08
[/b][/quote]

Selling more than Polaris expected? Must be why many polaris owners were getting a rebate in the mail if they purchase one of these over priced under equipped sled. Makes pretty good sense to me now.
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bad brad @ Apr 24 2007, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sledsearcher @ Apr 24 2007, 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Quite frankly I dont think the market is there. The majority of snowmobilers are TRAIL riders. The market for a $11,000+ 600CC sled just isnt there. This is why the 600RR is a limited build spring order only sled. Polaris will only build the quantity spring ordered...that means its NOT a big money maker.

I just don't see the market. Not to mention that sno pros are NOT good trail sleds...they are ditch bangers, they aren't made to rail through trails at 60+mph, they are tippy...Again you are dealing with a small niche market.

Would I love to have a consumer version Sno Pro chassis sled...sure, but I wouldn't pay the kind of coin a sled like that would demand.[/b]


not to be an ?...but...good thing you live in the us because that is exactly what it cost for a 600cc sled up here in canada...all brands are in the 11000-13000 price range not including taxes

the all loving firecat is exactly the sled you say people would not be in the market for.it was a great trail sled if you drove it like you stole it ...as the saying goes.it was tippy as you say...it was a ditch banger.....and they were probably cats greatest selling sled

lastly,the firecat was based on the sno pro race sled of the day......so i would think that it would be a great selling sled and would guess that polaris sells mor of them than they themselves are expecting..
i think cat will be wishing they did the same this year and bet you will see one in 08
[/b][/quote]

The Firecat is LOOSELY based off an OLD 440 race chassis. The new chassis' are 100% different. The have a much higher CG, more radical ergos, and are set up much differently. They do not come with the same shock package whatsoever. The new 440's come with Ti dual spring set ups with adjustable damping and compression, etc, or they come with compression and dampening adjustable float X's along with a Ti sprung dual rate rear shock set up. To mass produce this set up would be BIG $$$$$$$ for a market that is very much a NICHE. The Firecat was a big seller because it was fast...PERIOD. People didn't buy them for their handling....The 600RR is night and day different then a firecat, as would a new 440 Sno Pro be. Have you ever tried to ride a 440 on a tight trail?

As for the pricing...Fine, then I will correct it. The market for a $16,000 (CND) 600 snowmobile is not great.
 

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I believe AC should offer a racer replica, even if in limited numbers. Afterall, if AC wants to continue being known for their "racing heritage" they should give joe-public something racy to ride. Especially if an all new chassis is in the works for the '08 SnoPro.
 

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Maybe Cat has lost interest in racing

Look at theirs quads

you would think with such a successful racing heritage they would have released a Sports quad sometime in the last 12 yrs

btw the DVX is not a Cat its a Z400/KFX

Is there just less interest in racing altogether in Tuff Rubber Balls??

Maybe that is the reason for all the good racers abandoning(sp?) Cat in the past 5yrs or so
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FreezerBurnt @ May 17 2007, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Maybe Cat has lost interest in racing

Look at theirs quads

you would think with such a successful racing heritage they would have released a Sports quad sometime in the last 12 yrs

btw the DVX is not a Cat its a Z400/KFX

Is there just less interest in racing altogether in Tuff Rubber Balls??

Maybe that is the reason for all the good racers abandoning(sp?) Cat in the past 5yrs or so[/b]

They gain market share in quads every year, where is the problem??

They simply can't pay the wages that Yamaha and Doo pay to their racers, that is why you see people leaving, it's all about the money.
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dewalt17 @ May 18 2007, 10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FreezerBurnt @ May 17 2007, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe Cat has lost interest in racing

Look at theirs quads

you would think with such a successful racing heritage they would have released a Sports quad sometime in the last 12 yrs

btw the DVX is not a Cat its a Z400/KFX

Is there just less interest in racing altogether in Tuff Rubber Balls??

Maybe that is the reason for all the good racers abandoning(sp?) Cat in the past 5yrs or so[/b]

They gain market share in quads every year, where is the problem??

They simply can't pay the wages that Yamaha and Doo pay to their racers, that is why you see people leaving, it's all about the money.
[/b][/quote]

The problem is not the UTES but where is the Quad Racer 450 or/and 700

Cat makes great Utes 4x4 quads no doubt but there is no sport 4x4 or Racer that most would believe cat should be able to build

I do not believe its all about the $$$$,if you have a great sled you will have the riders
 

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Sorry, haha who won xgames, sorry, skidoo doesnt have better sleds for sure, and money has everything to do with everything. Cat has the sleds to win and if tucker came back we would have a dominant rider..... So why did blair go to skidoo, he cannot win with them obviously, umm and what about ross martin and tj lavin??? Cat is # 1 in snocross racing and in oval track pj wandersheid is running with the best. So i cant see the problem with anything Arctic Cat produced, the problem is cat either refused to pay the wages to the riders or they cannot afford to do so. Your choice, but cat can definately run with the best with the right riders on board. Aaron.
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FreezerBurnt @ May 18 2007, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dewalt17 @ May 18 2007, 10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FreezerBurnt @ May 17 2007, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe Cat has lost interest in racing

Look at theirs quads

you would think with such a successful racing heritage they would have released a Sports quad sometime in the last 12 yrs

btw the DVX is not a Cat its a Z400/KFX

Is there just less interest in racing altogether in Tuff Rubber Balls??

Maybe that is the reason for all the good racers abandoning(sp?) Cat in the past 5yrs or so[/b]

They gain market share in quads every year, where is the problem??

They simply can't pay the wages that Yamaha and Doo pay to their racers, that is why you see people leaving, it's all about the money.
[/b][/quote]

The problem is not the UTES but where is the Quad Racer 450 or/and 700

Cat makes great Utes 4x4 quads no doubt but there is no sport 4x4 or Racer that most would believe cat should be able to build

I do not believe its all about the $$$$,if you have a great sled you will have the riders
[/b][/quote]


Tucker proves how good the sled is every time he gets on it!!!!

It's all about money, NOT SLED QUALITY!!!!!!
 
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