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Discussion Starter #1
As a newly returning owner/rider after a dozen years or so, I have been consuming as much information as I can on whats going to be my operational plan for my new C-Tech2 600 engine.
I really don't want to start an octane or ethanol debate, Arctic Cat clearly states the recommended fuel to be used should be a minimum of 91 octane and a max level of 10% ethanol is permitted.
My concern is with using top tier gas or not, top tier has a more aggressive detergent package designed to keep intake valves and combustion chambers clean in modern car/truck engines.
I haven't found anywhere that top tier in 2 strokes is preferred or not, has anyone seen anything that addressee this topic?
 

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You can run as low as 87 octane in them. Has a knock sensor that will add fuel as needed. Have run it a few times and never noticed a difference. I will not run ethonal in mine as the fuel goes bad fast.
 

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It is a good question.

I wonder how quickly the top tier gasoline breaks down? Doesn't seem to be a lot of information. I ask because I try to run good gas toward the end of the season. Never know when it might be the last ride. :boohoo:


I often need fuel in areas that leave very little choice. One pump, one gas. It is not always 91 gas. The sleds do run with lower octane. They do have less power when they start dumping fuel.


I haven't really worried about running ethanol. Gas doesn't sit in the tank long. During the season, I run whatever is available. Toward the end, I try to find good non-oxy gas.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Again, I'm totally aware of the octane and ethanol facts, fictions and opinions.
My question is about top tier gasoline, top tier refers to the gasoline suppliers additive packages that contain a minimum amount of detergents in order to qualify stringent fuel requirement of many auto manufacturers.
My concern would be the detergents harmful or beneficial to the new 2 stroke engines, I haven't seen any official writings on the topic from 2 stroke engine manufacturers and wondering if anyone has.
 

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Your research should be the availability of Non-ethanol premium. Not the detergent packages. Octane is Octane, how they get it is whats harmful or not. And the way they are getting it and still burn "cleaner" is with the Ethanol. Unfortunately for us two stroke users this plays with the burn rates, flame temperatures and the amounts of oil injected that goes along with that. The Cetc has an electric oil pump. The computer is getting input from everything. Outside temp, speed, throttle position etc. making whatever-million calculations per second to deliver "X" amount of oil. Throw in ethanol (an oxygen bearing chemical) into the equation and this is where it sort of upsets the apple cart. I never run any. Where I go there is 110 octane leaded race fuel at the pump, and all three levels of fuel with no ethanol. Sometimes we have to go to a Kwik Trip which is your "Top Tier" stuff but thats all blended Ethanol. We stay away from it for that reason. It has all those "Top Tier" required detergents, but we stay away from it because it has Ethanol in it and can separate over time faster, not because of the detergents. I've never heard or seen any write-ups where some detergents were harmful to a two stroke engine. In fact Cat's injection oils all contain some amount of detergents

I wouldn't sweat it. But if that's all you have over there then put some storage additives in it with a full tank in the spring and drain the stuff in the fall and put it in your car to burn it off

There's a list of the Top Tier brands in the bottom of the Wiki page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Tier_Detergent_Gasoline

I can pretty much bet you none of it is going to be straight Ethanol-free fuel

When in doubt use AvGas
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Holy cheese and crackers, Top Tier gasolines have NOTHING to do with octane or ethanol. Top tier fuels can be straight gas of any octane or of any ethanol content, manufacturers can even have top tier diesel fuel.I Know everybody on snowmobile, motorcycle and car forums are bleeding from the ears about octane and ethanol, but MY QUESTION is about the extra detergents in the top tier fuels. I don't need or WANT octane or ethanol advice. Thanks anyways
 

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I know jack about top tier gas in the USA as in my part of Canada get 91 premium, 89 mid grade and 87 low grade. You may get top tier gas in the big cities but face it, you may be in the boonies and need gas and you’re going to get what you get. You can’t worry about it as no one else seems to be. I know I don’t feed my seasonal rides and equipment any corn. It’s 91 premium only. You got answers from three guys who are knowledgeable and give great advice.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Perhaps I'm not making my question clear, and maybe nobody has pondered it before, but top tier gasolines have 3 to 4 times more cleaning additives that non top tier gasolines. Lets take Mobil/Exon, a top tier supplier of fuels, their fuels will have more cleaners by far than lets say Speedway fuels of the same classification(ie octane/ethanol blends), which are not blending their fuel to meet top tier standards .
So with that info in mind, taking out the octane and ethanol equation, would a fuel with more or less cleaners be the fuel of choice?
On one hand I would like a cleaning fuel to keep the fuel injectors, pistons, rings and perhaps the APV's clean. Then on the other hand I would not to be too aggressive with cleaners as not to clean oil away from the bearings in the crank, rods, and wrist pin bearings.
Like I said twice, lets not debate the octane, ethanol or the oil for that matter.
Pure Question......High detergent fuel or low detergent fuel? That is the question.
 

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I don't need or WANT octane or ethanol advice. Thanks anyways
I didn't give you any either, read it again. And thank you for the kind words at the end.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I didn't give you any either, read it again. And thank you for the kind words at the end.
I know you gave a lot of info, some I agree and some not, in any case your answers were of questions I did not ask. A repeat of my last post.
Perhaps I'm not making my question clear, and maybe nobody has pondered it before, but top tier gasolines have 3 to 4 times more cleaning additives that non top tier gasolines. Lets take Mobil/Exon, a top tier supplier of fuels, their fuels will have more cleaners by far than lets say Speedway fuels of the same classification(ie octane/ethanol blends), which are not blending their fuel to meet top tier standards .
So with that info in mind, taking out the octane and ethanol equation, would a fuel with more or less cleaners be the fuel of choice?
On one hand I would like a cleaning fuel to keep the fuel injectors, pistons, rings and perhaps the APV's clean. Then on the other hand I would not to be too aggressive with cleaners as not to clean oil away from the bearings in the crank, rods, and wrist pin bearings.
Like I said twice, lets not debate the octane, ethanol or the oil for that matter.
Pure Question......High detergent fuel or low detergent fuel? That is the question.
 

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Ok then this should have been my answer at the end then
but we stay away from it because it has Ethanol in it and can separate over time faster, not because of the detergents. I've never heard or seen any write-ups where some detergents were harmful to a two stroke engine.
 

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There! Now that settles that!
 

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The answer you look for is, I doubt it matters on a two stroke as oil is constantly being introduced. Only thin I have ever worried about is Octane and ETH. Call dealer maybe? I think you will be just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Just trying to get some feedback on High detergent fuels(Top Tier), Didn't want too spur on another octane, ethanol, or God forbid, another oil thread.:angel
 

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So I tried searching for info on use of top tier gas in 2 strokes and came up blank. I only found info in some automobile manufacturers recommending it. I found a list of stations selling it and all have to meet a minimum standard for detergents which was introduced by the EPA in 1995, and some add more to theirs. Shell advertises nitrogen enriched. I was going nuts researching this so I quit. Good luck in trying to find an answer to your question though.
 

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My older air-cooled (motocross) dirt-bikes were my info source. From 1980-on, Yamaha’s big bore engines never had proper squish band configuration (matching piston crowns outer 2/3 region of dome evenly), and when low detergent fuels were burned in my cleanly jetted 465 and 490, it would lead to carbon beginning to become a bit more apparent on pistons domes out there, adding to a “bong-bong-bong-bong” running condition that lasted sometimes as long as 1-2 minutes like that, as detonation was occurring (again, due to mismatched squish angles between piston crown and cylinder head) while being assisted by the extra carbon found on outer crown regions of my pistons, making the bikes knock horribly and sounding like it had too much piston to wall clearances.

Using “top tier” (high detergent) fuels actually cleaned those outer 2/3 region, making detonation a little less noticeable at times when I wasn’t burning Av Gas or Turbo-blue (to curb down the detonation and helping to idle right down like normal after hard long runs).. Av gas or high octane fuels did better, but top tier was next in line...

With today’s sleds being so lean, (and yes, I know they have programming that helps avoid detonation), but, pre-ignition is harder to detect (avoiding the detonation mapping in ECM) and I’m leaning towards that possibly playing a role in some of this and last seasons engines we’ve seen folks having burn down issues with.

Detonation, and Pre-ignition are two (2) separate conditions all together, that are often considered (or mis-construed) as having the same damaging effects.

That is where I base my findings on, simply put, my big bore two stoke dirt-bikes liked the “engine component cleaning” fuels a little better than premium from let’s say.... SUNOCO (which didn’t offer a “Top tier” fuel (just one of many examples of fuel suppliers)...
I’d definitely have to write a book to list them all.

As far as High detergent oils... I’ve witnessed enough Amsoil Interceptor oiled(??) engines with many scuffed piston skirts over the years, some were worn pretty bad too (normal-like, but ACCELERATED nontheless) type of wear, not seizing, but what appeared as if they’d ran the sled in watery conditions, but instead of only the intakes skirt sides wearing, there was wear on both sides that was severe (for the mileage)

Friend runs several sleds in his family, and it was every year his ZR600 and Polaris 700 Edge-X were needing top end jobs.

He’d been running Interceptor, finally he tried (yes, Amsoil), but Dominator instead, and POOF!, problems vanished with NO OTHER mods or adjustments at all.


Stay away from oils claiming to make your engine run cleaner (interceptor especially)
 

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Wow I had I had no idea WTF the OP was talking about with the "Top Tier"fuel until I googled it. Pretty much in a nut shell just put gas in it and run it is what I got from it. I have a 15 6000 and an 18 8000 and they both run pretty well on whatever gas I pump into it. Never went to limp mode or seen the octane light like the Zuk 800 would do all the time. They both have many thousands of miles running all kinds of gas from **** to non eth 93 and 100LL. Dont over think it...put in gas and oil an run it...it doesn't give a **** what brand it is that is the owners hang up.
 

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I know jack about top tier gas in the USA as in my part of Canada get 91 premium, 89 mid grade and 87 low grade. You may get top tier gas in the big cities but face it, you may be in the boonies and need gas and you’re going to get what you get. You can’t worry about it as no one else seems to be. I know I don’t feed my seasonal rides and equipment any corn. It’s 91 premium only. You got answers from three guys who are knowledgeable and give great advice.


In Calgary at shell.
 

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In Calgary at shell.
I guess I have not paid attention to this at the Shell station I go to. Mind it's a full serve so I'm not staring at the pump and cursing the gas prices lol. I also fill up at CO-OP stations too which are full serve.
 
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