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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, just a quick note to remind you that track studs need to be checked for tightness before they loosen to the point where damage occurs.

2015 ZR 6000, studs were installed new by the dealer. 4500km's later they have destroyed the 4 inner idlers and started to eat the tri-hub idlers. Drive sprockets are ok and there appears to be no other damage. When I went to the Woody's web site to find out what the torque spec is, there is a notice to make sure you check stud tightness regularly. DOH!

So I am replacing all 6 idlers and the tri-hub with 2019 parts. The 2019 idlers are MUCH cheaper than the 2015 items. I am also replacing all the studs, most of the aluminum nuts are worn as are the backing plates. Studs could be reused but I am sucker for punishment. Some of the nuts have gone completely round and require cutting the stud off. The only thing worse than studding a track is unstudding a track.

Lesson learned.

Greg
 

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I'm a little surprised there is that much damage. I have found loose studs when checking. It has been pretty rare to find much damage to the idlers.


I have had to cut off bent studs over the years. Most of them, I could use a cut off wheel above the nut. You mentioned the nuts were rounded. Is that from socket slipping on the nut? Just curious to see why they are rounded.


BTW, the 2019 wheels are slightly smaller diameter. The rear axle is not going to be a direct fit as well. The openings in the rails are larger for the straight through axle on the 2019.
 

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Red loctite on those lock nuts every time for me. I had stud boy studs loosen up with the "tall" nuts and lost about 15 studs one weekend. A couple of the studs were relocated and shoved in sideways by the idler wheels. Never again. Pulled every nut off and did red not blue loctite.
 

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well to be honest its rather common info that ONCE studs are installed, your supposed to go back over them to make sure they stayed tight to torque spec's

so after a few rides, your SUPPOSED to go back over them to ensure there tight, as things settle from riding, and many times need to be re torqued however, very few folks ever do this I am sure and most tun the gamble and HOPE it works out OK
as they say some times you win, some times you loose LOL

SO the question here will be, did you re torque them after a few rides/miles??
as if not, your sadly in p[art to blame for the issue on hand!
not bashing just saying!
 

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Red loctite on those lock nuts every time for me. I had stud boy studs loosen up with the "tall" nuts and lost about 15 studs one weekend. .
I never seen"tall" nuts in kits that weren't aluminum. I never use those, too easy to strip them
 

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Again, I'm surprised.
Have not had the kind of problems you guys are describing. The issues I have seen are mainly operator related with bent studs. Of course, I have found a couple of loose studs when I checked.

Most of the tracks I've been running are at 1.25" or more with studs. I have run mainly stud boy and woody's for quite a few years. Most of them with tall aluminum nuts. They have been Nyloc nuts though. - Not sure if that is the difference?


I usually stud at least one track every season. It is a regular routine. I studded three tracks this year and they all have over 3,000 miles already. Have not had any failures except the occasional bent stud or backer on one machine. I know why those are bent. :blush:


I actually like studding tracks, but I don't do all the extra work you guys describe. I just use a good sharp bit when drilling holes. I have quit worrying about torque specs, or adding loctite, etc. I don't even use an allen wrench anymore. I just push in the stud and let the hole friction hold the stud from spinning. I tighten them down snug with a 3/8 battery impact and deep well socket. I have had very good success with this method. Rough math is over 2,400 studs in the past ten years on 17 sleds. Quite a few of those machines have had over 6,000 miles before they left. I have seen idler wear, mostly on the older machines. The newer idlers hold up very well. I have replaced one idler this season.
 

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Again, I'm surprised.
Have not had the kind of problems you guys are describing. The issues I have seen are mainly operator related with bent studs. Of course, I have found a couple of loose studs when I checked.

Most of the tracks I've been running are at 1.25" or more with studs. I have run mainly stud boy and woody's for quite a few years. Most of them with tall aluminum nuts. They have been Nyloc nuts though. - Not sure if that is the difference?


I usually stud at least one track every season. It is a regular routine. I studded three tracks this year and they all have over 3,000 miles already. Have not had any failures except the occasional bent stud or backer on one machine. I know why those are bent. :blush:


I actually like studding tracks, but I don't do all the extra work you guys describe. I just use a good sharp bit when drilling holes. I have quit worrying about torque specs, or adding loctite, etc. I don't even use an allen wrench anymore. I just push in the stud and let the hole friction hold the stud from spinning. I tighten them down snug with a 3/8 battery impact and deep well socket. I have had very good success with this method. Rough math is over 2,400 studs in the past ten years on 17 sleds. Quite a few of those machines have had over 6,000 miles before they left. I have seen idler wear, mostly on the older machines. The newer idlers hold up very well. I have replaced one idler this season.
Agreed, I snug them down until flat face of studs head is level with track (or sunken into “quiet-ride” lugs), screw their torque specs.

If you torque them to those specs, you’re only inviting idler wheel and tri-hub wear.

Been doing that for years, never an issue with push through studs.

I do know of a few folks who use nylon backers (huge freaking mistake, IMO), as those do not ever reach a true “tight” as plastic/nylon keeps squishing as torque is applied, and doesn’t pull flange face flush with tracks inner surface.
 

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Thanks for the information. Yes it is operator error. Mea Culpa. Mea Wallet. I do have to cut some of them off. If the stud is sufficiently loose the aluminum backer gets destroyed as does the aluminum nut, it turns into a round chunk of aluminum. The backer rattles around until the hole is big enough for it to fly off. See attached pic.
 

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Wow!! @gseamen, I have to admit I've never seen that before. I would definitely start over with new studs. I wonder why those failed in that method? Loose studs can cause problems. That looks like more than loose studs. What type of backer was installed? How many pulled through the track? Hopefully, track is still good.
 

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The last 5 or so sleds I studded have been flawless. I use the same method as C-note, basically by feel on the inside. I use all double backers now. On a 6000 the pattern used is 4-2-2 repeat all in the center belt.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
New Woody's studs being installed as we speak. Gold diggers with the same aluminum backers and same aluminum nuts. I will check them regularly. There were no pull throughs, all studs accounted for. Just waiting for the new idlers to arrive from Arctic. There is enough snow here still that I may be able to go for a short shakedown next week.

There is a hillclimb at a ski resort to the east of North Bay in Mattawa this weekend.

https://antoinemountain.ca

G
 

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Thanks for the information. Yes it is operator error. Mea Culpa. Mea Wallet. I do have to cut some of them off. If the stud is sufficiently loose the aluminum backer gets destroyed as does the aluminum nut, it turns into a round chunk of aluminum. The backer rattles around until the hole is big enough for it to fly off. See attached pic.
Friends don't let friends use aluminum nuts. Don't do it, this can happen
 

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Agreed, I snug them down until flat face of studs head is level with track (or sunken into “quiet-ride” lugs), screw their torque specs.

If you torque them to those specs, you’re only inviting idler wheel and tri-hub wear.
I also do the same. I never looked for a torque wrench, I just pull them down till flush and your done
 
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