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I was reading March's issue of SnowGoer on Arctic Cat's motors and read something interesting about oil consumption. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, because I'm new to this, I just want to get your guys opinion.

Excerpt from SnowGoer March Issue, Page 24-25

"If the owner of one of these new, clean two-strokes was to measure the volume of oil used from the injector tank to the gasoline used, that woner might surmise that the oil delivery rate was too high. That would be an error in thinking."

"About the same amount of oil is being used to lubricate the engine as in earlier engines but the amount of gasoline being used has decreased considerably. The higher combustion chamber temperatures and lower operating RPM of these new engines allows for more complete combustion of the oil as well. The oil is simply used more completely as a fuel as well as a lubricant."

What do you guys think? I do think my sled runs fuel rich when I'm running low rpms, it tends to load up a little towards the end of the day. However it seems to clean itself out if I run it up for a little bit if I run a few hills or blast down the trail.
 

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"Same amount of oil...as in earlier engines" my ass. This is an error in thinking. If I go through a quart of oil in 80 miles, that is not anywhere near what any of my "earlier engines" burned and is no where near what it should be given the same approximate gas mileage. I verify the correct amount of oil by doing four checks.

1. Verify the ratio of consumption
2. "Seat of the pants" feel of how the motor is running (i.e. loaded up, missing, gobs of black smoke on takeoff)
3. Spark plug evaluation
4. How much black crap is building up on the belly and tunnel and my boots.

Many of these sleds are pig rich and instead of saying that this is the way it should be, a reputable magazine would suggest ways to verify that you are running at the correct ratio and not just make a blanket statement that whatever yours is at is correct.
 

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I just left a post on oil consuption on HCS. Last week in Yellowstone my oil light came on at 120 miles I had a steady red at 150 miles. Owners manual say's when the light first comes on you have enough oil for another tank of gas. at 170 miles there was no oil left in the tank.
 

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lol funny......i think i must have changed about 39845245 plugs b4 i spun the rod for the last time...but it's ok, it was because of my "error in thinking"....lol
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bones1075 @ Feb 22 2007, 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I was reading March's issue of SnowGoer on Arctic Cat's motors and read something interesting about oil consumption. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, because I'm new to this, I just want to get your guys opinion.

Excerpt from SnowGoer March Issue, Page 24-25

"If the owner of one of these new, clean two-strokes was to measure the volume of oil used from the injector tank to the gasoline used, that woner might surmise that the oil delivery rate was too high. That would be an error in thinking."

"About the same amount of oil is being used to lubricate the engine as in earlier engines but the amount of gasoline being used has decreased considerably. The higher combustion chamber temperatures and lower operating RPM of these new engines allows for more complete combustion of the oil as well. The oil is simply used more completely as a fuel as well as a lubricant."

What do you guys think? I do think my sled runs fuel rich when I'm running low rpms, it tends to load up a little towards the end of the day. However it seems to clean itself out if I run it up for a little bit if I run a few hills or blast down the trail.[/b]
funny, If an owner of one of these new clean two-strokes would be inclined to think that Arctic Cat could tune an EFI system that would not backfire and throw flames out the exhaust after a sustained mid rpm run on production machines. That too would be an error in thinking.

Talk about arrogant azzhats, You know that is crap spewed from AC to the rag, because they got wind that many were turning down the pumps, because of the overly rich state of tune.
 

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STUPID...STUPID...STUPID....

The guy that wrote that must have been on crack or got a big bonus from Cat and the oil comapies.

Anyone with any experiance with 2 stoke engines knows that 50:1 fuel/oil mixture is the standard.

I'm going to think twice before I renew my Sno Goer subscription becuase of this type of BS.
 

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What a load of horse$hit. Who writes this crap anyways?!?!?! The only useful thing for a SnowGoer rag is for wiping dirty bumholes.......idiots.

"If the owner of one of these new, clean two-strokes was to measure the volume of oil used from the injector tank to the gasoline used, that woner might surmise that the oil delivery rate was too high. That would be an error in thinking."

"About the same amount of oil is being used to lubricate the engine as in earlier engines but the amount of gasoline being used has decreased considerably. The higher combustion chamber temperatures and lower operating RPM of these new engines allows for more complete combustion of the oil as well. The oil is simply used more completely as a fuel as well as a lubricant."

WHAT!?!?!? Higher combustion temps????? Lower operating rpm?????? 20:1 is bad, 50:1 is good...what else needs to be said?????

The only '..error in thinking..' is on their behalf. Once again, IDIOTS!
 

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16:1 huh. And I thought my 25:1 was bad. Pretty soon we won't need to bother putting any gas in, all we'll have to do is thin the oil down a little and let er rip (er cough, sputter, and spew).
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nunavut_Crossfire @ Apr 24 2007, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
STUPID...STUPID...STUPID....

The guy that wrote that must have been on crack or got a big bonus from Cat and the oil comapies.

Anyone with any experiance with 2 stoke engines knows that 50:1 fuel/oil mixture is the standard.

I'm going to think twice before I renew my Sno Goer subscription becuase of this type of BS.[/b]
Well said.. anyone who knows anything about a 2 stroke running too rich, like all the '07 F's, knows that all the "flaming" and burning plastic is only caused from a WAY to rich running engine. The F1000 I had experience with would leave a big black spot on the snow after only 20 or 30 seconds of idling after stopping, this is with the oiler rod turned back 4 complete turns from stock! It's in the programming. Cat was WAY to conservative in '07 and it probably cost them more $$$ than if they would have been on the lean side?? '08 will prove us all right when we see the 600, 800 & 1000 F's run the way they were engineered to run... clean and quik! The firecat 6's and 7's ran way leaner from the factory and they were all too rich in my opinion, but they were quik and fast enough. The '08 Fsleds better be a big improvement on the programming issues we all have seen in '07. Great sled... just give us the sled the engineers designed... not the "Warantee Department" gave us in '07"

Scotty bang your head
 

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Costing Cat more $$????? last time I checked a pistion and cylinder were more expensive then a belly pan. Compared to 2003, this has been a good year for Cat.

BTW, if the 07's were oil rich and most Cat customers stayed with APV, Cat must have made a killing on their already over priced oil...
 

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Good Day Gentlemen! I have to agree that the sleds I own are a "little" rich in both fuel curve and oil consumption. That said I have seen several independent tests done on various manufacturers 2 stroke engines that have shown that durability is reduced at mixturers leaner than 32:1 in "premixed" usage. However power is not affected untill the mixturers are richer than 22:1. All of this is interesting but does not apply to a oil injected engine. Studies have been run showing that with the same oils as the premixed engines in a injected engine optimum will range from 100:1 at idle to 50:1 at WOT is the best compromise but leaner or richer fuel curves are a big variable. Our oil is still used to cool and lubricate the leaner the fuel curve the hotter the engine and this will require more oil. Trade offs stink!
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gendoor @ Apr 27 2007, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Good Day Gentlemen! I have to agree that the sleds I own are a "little" rich in both fuel curve and oil consumption. That said I have seen several independent tests done on various manufacturers 2 stroke engines that have shown that durability is reduced at mixturers leaner than 32:1 in "premixed" usage. However power is not affected untill the mixturers are richer than 22:1. All of this is interesting but does not apply to a oil injected engine. Studies have been run showing that with the same oils as the premixed engines in a injected engine optimum will range from 100:1 at idle to 50:1 at WOT is the best compromise but leaner or richer fuel curves are a big variable. Our oil is still used to cool and lubricate the leaner the fuel curve the hotter the engine and this will require more oil. Trade offs stink![/b]
I agree, and have read similar articles, especially on the durability issues at lower ratios. However, there are other ways to achieve better cooling. One of the the things I realized over the winter is that the Crossfires generate a lot of heat in an engine compartment that is nothing less than a box. Same goes for the M's. That's why so many M riders have gone to the vented side panels. On my Crossfire I have modified the belly pan to let heat out and noticed cooler clutches and engine right away. Have since modified the belly pan further. It's a poor way to cool an engine by dumping a ton of oil into it. Completely defeats the purpose of cleaner emissions. Here I am with a newer "cleaner" sled that leaves a black trail in the snow when I hit the throttle. My ZR does not do this and consumes less oil. I even have the Crossfire oil rod turned back 2 turns! Thing is that the ZR has excellent cooling. Wide open engine compartment and lots of air coming in from the hood vents. Obviously there are trade offs for the compact design of the XF and M's, but running heavy on oil and rich on fuel is contradictory to the direction we should be heading.
 

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Ride with a Doo, it's disturbing how much less oil they use then a Cat, I don't think they have huge engine problems!!

My X-fire 600 was terrible, around 19 to 1.

My F6 was alot better at around 40 to 1 but the 2 Doo's I ride with are even much better then that.
 
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