any comments? lol any other ideas to gain some power???

 

Get the pipe mod done to your pipe or buy the Stealth pipe if you want a worth while and noticable gain..that pipe ( mod ) and a y pipe compliment each other very well...with the y-pipe alone you will gain 3-4 hp but will not feel much of a difference. Reeds dont really do much, no real performance gain. Timing keys will make you power but you also run more on the edge and have to run 91 octane....no comment on the PAC or other fuel mods. Some say the 10.4 secondary is a must but I've seen plenty of 05s run fine without out ....I don't think it necessary personally, money could be spent on better upgrades elsewhere.

You should have whipped you FIL's 600 stock...7200 rpm is way low...you should be 7800...make sure your power valves are clean and the cables are properly adjusted...then go back to stock clutching and start again...with 77 or 78g weights.

Best bang for the buck and most commen and proven combo is stil the Stealth pipe ( or pipe mod..same thing but less $ ), y-pipe and 78g weights...pretty simple, alot less dicken around and reliable...my.02

 

You'll be putting a spank on the future father in law. The weight will be the downfall for the speed. Those are all good mods. I would add a a D&D single or Speedwerx pipe to it though. Your problems last year was the 7200rpms, stock should have been at least 7800 there is some mph there at the upgraded secondary is good for a couple at well.

 

hey shadow44 you say that you wouldnt have upgraded the clutching the way i did and you said you would have spent your money elsewhere??? what better mods are there?? everything thing i have heard or seen says clutching first as far as mods....im a lil new to this stuff so i would really like to know what other mods i could spend money on?? lol i dont know what else there is besides pipe mod....i have new clutch, clutch kit, boyesen rage cages, timing key, fuel reducer, bmp y-pipe, mbrp can(i know there is no power gain from a can)...? i dont know what else to do unless i pull the motor and do and f8 kit and port the heads...but id like to leave the internals stock as long as i can.....keep the suggestions comming and thank you to those who are replying...oh and the powervalves are clean and were serviced at the local cat shack...i think my problem was all in clutching

 

Forget the reeds and the timing key. Not worth the hassle and the reeds will do nothing for performance on a stock bore F7. Clutching is #1 and a decent pipe. The BMP Stealth is the best single pipe on the market for a trail sled. You shouldnt need the pac or fuel reducer to beat a 600 if your sled is clutched properly. Leaning the down the fuel will make more power but you will have to compensate with clutching for the additional power or you will be going backwards. A lot of guys add horsepower and forget about the clutch and then wonder why the sled is slower. Furthermore leaning down your sled without dynotuning is gambling on burning down your motor if you dont know how to read the piston wash etc... I would put the pipe on and then dial that clutch in to the correct rpm's for that particular pipe. 10.4 upgrade is good and a torsional conversion would be great for you becuase of your weight. The stock DD secondarys tend to have belt slippage and the torsional conversion cures that. At least thats what the DD guys tell me... Dont forget the 10.4 update requires a different belt then your stock one and will require some hammering on the footwell to get the belt on..No biggy. Get your clutch right and your rpm's right and you will be happy with that sled. Good Luck!

 

thanx guys great stuff!!! i really appreciate it!!! i havent done the reeds yet nor have i done the fuel reducer....ive already done the timing key and the y pipe and the 10.4 secondary...just waiting for bmp to send me the stage 2 clutch kit which is the torsion spring conversion a new helix and new spring as well as new dalton adjustable weights and spring for the primary.....i also purchased the rock rollers for the secondary and the slick shift bearing for the secondary.......and its going to need and 034 belt instead of the 044.....again thank you guys so much and keep it coming if you have anymore comments or suggestions!.......come on snow!!!

1inch track with 136 studs that are worn out!!
135psi compression both cylinders and the tech said he saw only very minor piston scuff when he installed the timing key..
i run amsoil dominator oil

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2005_F7_maine @ Aug 8 2010, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

thanx guys great stuff!!! i really appreciate it!!! i havent done the reeds yet nor have i done the fuel reducer....ive already done the timing key and the y pipe and the 10.4 secondary...just waiting for bmp to send me the stage 2 clutch kit which is the torsion spring conversion a new helix and new spring as well as new dalton adjustable weights and spring for the primary.....i also purchased the rock rollers for the secondary and the slick shift bearing for the secondary.......and its going to need and 034 belt instead of the 044.....again thank you guys so much and keep it coming if you have anymore comments or suggestions!.......come on snow!!!

1inch track with 136 studs that are worn out!!
135psi compression both cylinders and the tech said he saw only very minor piston scuff when he installed the timing key..
i run amsoil dominator oil[/b]

you just wasted $400 with that clutch kit.Listen to shadow and get the bmp stealth pipe,take out that timing key and get d&d's pac system and spend $50 on 77-78 gram weights and that clutching will be spot on and better than the stage 2 clutch kit.And if you don't know anything about clutching your gonna have a hard time getting that stage 2 clutch kit dialed in.I had one on my sled for 5 minutes and got rid of it

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darrellw @ Aug 9 2010, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2005_F7_maine @ Aug 8 2010, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanx guys great stuff!!! i really appreciate it!!! i havent done the reeds yet nor have i done the fuel reducer....ive already done the timing key and the y pipe and the 10.4 secondary...just waiting for bmp to send me the stage 2 clutch kit which is the torsion spring conversion a new helix and new spring as well as new dalton adjustable weights and spring for the primary.....i also purchased the rock rollers for the secondary and the slick shift bearing for the secondary.......and its going to need and 034 belt instead of the 044.....again thank you guys so much and keep it coming if you have anymore comments or suggestions!.......come on snow!!!

1inch track with 136 studs that are worn out!!
135psi compression both cylinders and the tech said he saw only very minor piston scuff when he installed the timing key..
i run amsoil dominator oil[/b]

you just wasted $400 with that clutch kit.Listen to shadow and get the bmp stealth pipe,take out that timing key and get d&d's pac system and spend $50 on 77-78 gram weights and that clutching will be spot on and better than the stage 2 clutch kit.And if you don't know anything about clutching your gonna have a hard time getting that stage 2 clutch kit dialed in.I had one on my sled for 5 minutes and got rid of it
[/b][/quote]

I dont know much about the DD clutch setups but I am curious about what you are saying. You are saying to add the bmp pipe which I agree with and the pac which I agree with also provided the user knows what they are doing and dont lean the sled down too far. But where I am losing you is on the clutching. You are saying to add a few grams over stock to the primary clutch and that will put the clutching spot on. Are you saying to go a few grams heavier becuase of the added HP from the pipe and pac? If so then a person with a bone stock sled would not be able to add the heavier weights becuase of the lack of power. So basically you are saying a stock sled is already spot on with stock clutching and with additional HP you just new a few for grams to compensate. Am I reading you right on that?

 

this is getting interesting.....hmmmm.......darrellw why did you buy the bmp stage 2 originally and why did it only last 5 minutes?? you also said that you need to know about clutches to tune the bmp kit, r u saying you dont know much about clutches and thats why you took it out after 5 minutes?? just curious cuz i dont know alot about clutches but i understand how they work....just trying to figure this out...also the guy that owned it before me messed the clutches up with changing springs and whatever else he did so im just gonna do the whole thing primary and secondary new so i know what i have....i think that makes sense and isnt it also smart to go with torsional conversion (which is included in the bmp kit) it gets rid of spring bind???? again im listening to what everyone is saying, and taking it all in the responses are great and i thank you!........also is it safe to mix and match bmp stuff with d&d stuff and ods stuff and what not? just wondering!

i was trying to pick one brand and stick with that brand..lol

 

is that all?? no more responses?

 

If you go do a search on darrell's post on here he documented his issues with the stage 2. Basically with adjustable weights you really need to spend a few hours dialing them in (this was not his problem it was something else), it is not a place the weights where bmp recommends and drive the sled. The conversion piece in the stage 2 is good. The helix well that is where some people not happy with.
You can mix and match brands for the most part. 4 places that offer better clutching over bmp that work well for all conditions of riding that you can buy as a kit, in no paticular order: OutDoorShop, Priceless Performance and Speedwerxs. D&D is good for trail/lake/race but the other 3 mentioned work well off trail as well. Results vary from sled to sled.

 

so i dont mind testing and tuning it if the weights are easy to adjust i live on a fairly large lake....but if there is something wrong with the helix.....(this is the first time ive heard anything bad about the helix it self) then that will be ****ty if BMPs helix sucks....locally ive heard people having great luck with this kit that was my deciding factor along with the extra top speed......and if you live on a lake and your F7 wont break 100mph you dont take it out on the lake very much cuz you dont wanna get smoked! lol again thank you guys for all the info very helpfull keep it coming if you have anything else to say....thanx

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2005_F7_maine @ Aug 7 2010, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

hey shadow44 you say that you wouldnt have upgraded the clutching the way i did and you said you would have spent your money elsewhere??? what better mods are there?? everything thing i have heard or seen says clutching first as far as mods....im a lil new to this stuff so i would really like to know what other mods i could spend money on?? lol i dont know what else there is besides pipe mod....i have new clutch, clutch kit, boyesen rage cages, timing key, fuel reducer, bmp y-pipe, mbrp can(i know there is no power gain from a can)...? i dont know what else to do unless i pull the motor and do and f8 kit and port the heads...but id like to leave the internals stock as long as i can.....keep the suggestions comming and thank you to those who are replying...oh and the powervalves are clean and were serviced at the local cat shack...i think my problem was all in clutching[/b]

Clutching is a fine art and unless you really know clutching you should try to keep is as simple as possible...the cat clutching works pretty well with a few minor tweaks, weights for starters to get the rpms right..if you are going with a kit I would say ODS..his kit is well thought out, simple and works with the y-pipe/stealth pipe ( or pipe mod ). The 10.4 is a waste of money imo...it gives a bit of top end but 1-2 mph is not worth the $175 to me...that's where I would say save your cash and spend it on a better mod ( stealth pipe ), also reeds don't do a whole lot either, so another $300? saved. Timing key make power but imo you sacrifice reliabilty ( puts you on the edge ) and you have to run 91, if ound they run better on 87, which is also easier to find....dw would be the best guy to ask about the BMP clutch kit...but in general adjustable weights can be finiky to set up, which leaves something on the table, either top or bottom. I would do searches on all of the mods you have listed, there is alot of good info on here, that's what I did and ended up going wit a Straightline Performance y-pipe, BMP Stealt pipe, 77g cat weights...made 147hp and ran at 7800 bang on....no complaints on that set up at all.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shadow44 @ Aug 12 2010, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2005_F7_maine @ Aug 7 2010, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hey shadow44 you say that you wouldnt have upgraded the clutching the way i did and you said you would have spent your money elsewhere??? what better mods are there?? everything thing i have heard or seen says clutching first as far as mods....im a lil new to this stuff so i would really like to know what other mods i could spend money on?? lol i dont know what else there is besides pipe mod....i have new clutch, clutch kit, boyesen rage cages, timing key, fuel reducer, bmp y-pipe, mbrp can(i know there is no power gain from a can)...? i dont know what else to do unless i pull the motor and do and f8 kit and port the heads...but id like to leave the internals stock as long as i can.....keep the suggestions comming and thank you to those who are replying...oh and the powervalves are clean and were serviced at the local cat shack...i think my problem was all in clutching[/b]

Clutching is a fine art and unless you really know clutching you should try to keep is as simple as possible...the cat clutching works pretty well with a few minor tweaks, weights for starters to get the rpms right..if you are going with a kit I would say ODS..his kit is well thought out, simple and works with the y-pipe/stealth pipe ( or pipe mod ). The 10.4 is a waste of money imo...it gives a bit of top end but 1-2 mph is not worth the $175 to me...that's where I would say save your cash and spend it on a better mod ( stealth pipe ), also reeds don't do a whole lot either, so another $300? saved. Timing key make power but imo you sacrifice reliabilty ( puts you on the edge ) and you have to run 91, if ound they run better on 87, which is also easier to find....dw would be the best guy to ask about the BMP clutch kit...but in general adjustable weights can be finiky to set up, which leaves something on the table, either top or bottom. I would do searches on all of the mods you have listed, there is alot of good info on here, that's what I did and ended up going wit a Straightline Performance y-pipe, BMP Stealt pipe, 77g cat weights...made 147hp and ran at 7800 bang on....no complaints on that set up at all.

lmao,don't really have the time to explain myself but bmp did my motor,lake race ported.=pipe,y pipe etc and seing they did the work and know what they did to the motor and clutched hundreds with there mods told me to use that set up and it would work awesome.Nope,weights way to heavy and tested and played with it along with a few other guys for hours.Never got it right and popped a cylinder from under reving and not pulling the fuel on the top end.Thought that that stage 2 torsional conversion kit would have been pretty close since bmp told me that it would with my set up..Nope.Instead of running it again i sent my sled to Mike Kirk in watertown for a ported 800 top end with twin pipes and he took that clutching off and used what he knew would work and after he clutched and tuned it,it rocks.As far as the stock clutching with the mod pipe and pac and a few other goodies,adding weight leaving stock springs simply works,try it and you and several others will call me and thank me like several others have.Not saying stock clutching is spot on but with those few mods,adding 3-5 grams of weight to primary was as good and close as i or anyone else could get it. using,reeds,d&d pac,10.4 upgrade with a d&d y pipe and a bmp mod pipe on my 05 f7 efi DD.no timing
[/b][/quote]

 

this is all great info guys thank you so much...ill let you know how i make out, im still waiting for the stage 2 kit from bmp i guess the dalton weights were out of stock?!! well if anyone else has anything to add keep it coming!!

 

I would like to hear the comments keep coming as well. I was about to order the same set up for my 05 F7. My secondary clutch is worn out though, and its cheaper to get the 10.4 than the stock one from cat.

 

Having your box flashed to the 06 specs will clean up the fuel curve a bit . Free upgrade less shipping . needs to be sent in from your dealer.

 

hey jasonjdwyer...i purchased the 10.4 sheaves from the outdoor shop (ODS)...and the slick shift bearing...the total was a little over 200 dollars (u.s.) i think 174.99 for the secondary and 19.99 for the bearing....im still waiting for the clutch kit from BMP i had my local dealer order it cuz they got me a better deal than i could get from BMP...but it seems to be taking a while! i cant give you much feedback till we get snow...so i hope the guys on here keep this a hot topic and keep replying!!! CANT WAIT FOR SNOW!!!

 

hey sledkiller... how much better will the flash upgrade make the fuel curve?? will that clean it up enough so i wont need to use a fuel reducer???? the dealer told me to definitly do the fuel reducer and the boyessen rage cage, he claimed great power but im getting a lot of mixed reviews....still up in the air on what to do with fuel system...im gonna give the 10.4 sheaves and bmps stage 2 kit a try where i have already purchased them, and the bmp y-pipe and the 2.5 degree timing key is already installed....keep this thread going!!!

 

To re-flash the computer is there a fee? I know my sled is really rich.

 

the flash upgrade according to sledkiller is free at the factory but you must pay shipping and you also have to go through your local cat dealer....

 

I heard theres not a big difference going from the 05 map to the 06 map and in some cases the sled lost performance Just saying....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (98 thundercat @ Aug 15 2010, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I heard theres not a big difference going from the 05 map to the 06 map and in some cases the sled lost performance Just saying....[/b]

You going to the grass drags in Wayland on Oct 9th.

 

I believe dynotech Jim has some results posted on the differences between the 2 maps. There are always variables between machines , including injectors from what I understand . I run the pac with the reflash . Noticeable difference ? Hard to say , as any of these things are done the gains seem to be incremental . The only real way to tell would be to dyno after each mod, and make timed runs in identical conditions . which would be nigh onto impossible .
Making each change step by step and then clutching it last seems to be the most successful route to take .
Plenty of good people and great advice from experience to be had here , read , ask , listen , and these guys will get you set up .

 

Not to steal anyones topic here but i have 2006 f6 and i am having trouble clutching....i have the stage 2 clutch kit your talking about....i walk all over other 600's and now every time its a close race and before my sled was stock now it has this kit and bmp single pipe...any comments would be greatly appreciated