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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have 7 helix's and would like to share what I have found about them.

I have the factory 44/40 compound cut (2 straight cut angles), MAG performance Dalton compound cut
and 5 EPI progressive cut (no straight angles) in 50/38, 50/36, 48/40, 48/38, & 46/38

After taking out the 48/38 EPI helix that was marked on the package I noticed it was not stamped on the helix like the others.
I began to question if it was the correct piece.

So I printed out on heavy photo style paper a 360 degree protractor.
I cut out right angles in the following degrees 36,38,40,42,44,48,50 & 52

I then wrapped the different sizes around the helix while sitting on a flat surface.
The straight compound angle helix's are pretty easy just use the angle that is parallel to the ramp.
Progressives are a little tougher because of no flat angles on the ramp, so what I did was mark the helix at the point the paper angle intersected the ramp.

I checked wear the pattern on the factory 44/40 helix then marked each helix where the roller sits when belt is at the most outer part of the sheaves (about 1 1/2" from the back or open end of helix).

I then noted the change of the compound angles on the factory helix's (point where it changes from 44 to 40) which was about
1 3/4" from the back or open end of the helix.

Finally I also guessed from wear marks, about how far the rollers were actually shifting out to last year.
This was about 2 3/4 from the back or open end of the helix.

OK now I started with the factory 44/40 and found that was really about 42/38 with the 38 more like 37.5
Now I am scratching my head, how can this be? I doubled checked the angles for correctness.

So I remembered that DONNO had the same MAG 2 helix I had and he came up with a 48/38.
I grab mine and check it, sure enough 48/38.
Now I am guessing that I am doing this correct judging by I had the same results as DONNO.

Next I check the unmarked 48/38 after struggling a little with the progressive style I came up with a 46/36.
Close but not what's marked on the box

The numbers that I am using for the first measured size (largest number) is 1.5" from the back or open end of the helix because this is where the rollers sit with no shift out.

Here is a final list of all the helix's with rated numbers and my measured numbers

--------- Rated ---- Measured ------- Style

Factory --- 44/40----- 42/38 ----- compound

Mag 2----- ? -------- 48/38 ----- compound

EPI ----- 48/38 ----- 45/36 ----- progressive

EPI ----- 48/40 ----- 46/38 ----- progressive

EPI ----- 46/38 ----- 44/36 ----- progressive

EPI ----- 50/38 ------- 44.5/36 ----- progressive

EPI ----- 50/36 ----- 52/36 ----- progressive

Below is pictures with each one that has been marked with the rated size, then I made marks for the different degrees.

I also made a RED mark at the top that shows where the rollers start at.
Then the BLUE mark is distance were the factory angle shifts at (this was just done for my own reference)
The bottom RED mark is about the farthest point were the rollers traveled to last year.

If I am incorrect in the way I have measured these helix's at least I would be incorrect on all of them and I will be able to make a good guess at my next change using these numbers.
I only paid $25 a piece for the EPI helix's brand new so I don't feel bad about the discrepancy of the numbers, just glad I laid them all out rather than just slapping them in according to the rated specs.

This is the factory 44/40 that looks like a 42/38 or less
[attachment=60193:clutch_mod_rkt_005.jpg]

wear marks on factory 44/40
[attachment=60195:clutch_mod_rkt_006.jpg]

Mag Performance looks like a 48/38
[attachment=60196:clutch_mod_rkt_004.jpg]

EPI 46/38 that looks like a 44/36
[attachment=60198:clutch_mod_rkt_007.jpg]

EPI 50/38 that looks like a 44.5/36
[attachment=60199:clutch_mod_rkt_008.jpg]

EPI 48/40 that looks like a 46/38
[attachment=60201:clutch_mod_rkt_009.jpg]

EPI 48/38 that looks like a 45/36
[attachment=60202:clutch_mod_rkt_010.jpg]

EPI 50/36 that looks like a 52/36
[attachment=60203:clutch_mod_rkt_011.jpg]
 

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I think you have too much money in helixes and too much time on your hands! But never the less great detective work!

D
 

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well I will say, I bet each manufacturer has their own way to start and stop the area they call "the angle" say... so all in all doesn't really matter much.. Thats why when tuning always use the same company and then there should be no confusion on whats what.. as long as you have a starting point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Dan your right about one supplier, but I did not think there would some of the differances even from the same.
Thanks for the speedworks silver spring you sent out to me today!
 

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The angle will vary if you measure on the outside of the helix (as you did), the center where the roller would contact or the inner face of the helix. Different mfr's use different methods of measurement, but good job with being that consistant using your method!!
 

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FYI some manufacturers measure the outside as there angle and some (most)measure the inside!! The inside is two degrees steeper than the outside!!(on the old style helix at least)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
hey guys I just measured the inside on a couple of them and they are running 6 degrees higher!
would never have guessed there was a differance!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
well another update, I guess the centerline of the helix ramp maybe what most manufactures use for there measurements.
With being said, if I split the differance between the inside and outside measurments, I would add 3 degrees to my original numbers.
This would make the stock 44/40 that I measured at 42/38 pretty much where it should be.
Thanks
dave
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rsss396 @ Jan 9 2007, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
well another update, I guess the centerline of the helix ramp maybe what most manufactures use for there measurements.
With being said, if I split the differance between the inside and outside measurments, I would add 3 degrees to my original numbers.
This would make the stock 44/40 that I measured at 42/38 pretty much where it should be.
Thanks
dave[/b]
Wait till you start playing with START & FINISH RATES on PRIMARY & SECONDARY SPRINGS. Thats an even bigger JOKE.
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ODS Dan @ Jan 9 2007, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
well I will say, I bet each manufacturer has their own way to start and stop the area they call "the angle" ... so all in all doesn't really matter much..
Thats why when tuning always use the same company and then there should be no confusion on whats what.. as long as you have a starting point.[/b]
exactly,,,, good point to make sure it's well known Dan :thumbsup:


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rsss396 @ Jan 9 2007, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Dan your right about one supplier, but I did not think there would some of the differances even from the same.[/b]
re-read his post,,, see the ''differences in mfr's starting/finishing angles'' and how they have varying ways of points to measure (not inside ramp vs outside either), top to bottom of said ramps is the point stressed here, where the roller sits on anyones helix at the start and their respective finish will not always be the same, keep that in mind

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cjt @ Jan 9 2007, 10:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
FYI some manufacturers measure the outside as there angle and some (most)measure the inside!! The inside is two degrees steeper than the outside!!(on the old style helix at least)[/b]
this is true, along with a host of other variables to throw in as well


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rsss396 @ Jan 9 2007, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
hey guys I just measured the inside on a couple of them and they are running 6 degrees higher!
would never have guessed there was a differance![/b]
big difference ,, no?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rsss396 @ Jan 9 2007, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
well another update, I guess the centerline of the helix ramp maybe what most manufactures use for there measurements.
With being said, if I split the differance between the inside and outside measurments, I would add 3 degrees to my original numbers.
This would make the stock 44/40 that I measured at 42/38 pretty much where it should be.
Thanks
dave[/b]
another variable to consider


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MELROSEMAFIA @ Jan 10 2007, 08:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Wait till you start playing with START & FINISH RATES on PRIMARY & SECONDARY SPRINGS. Thats an even bigger JOKE.[/b]
slaphappy slaphappy ,, you sure got that right! slaphappy
 

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I experienced this with my F5. I had a 62-44 D&D helix that it would NOT pull. I then tried a 62-48 Dalton helix that freaking RIPPED. That makes no sense, but just goes to show that different manu's make them differently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well my system may not have been the most accurate, but I would say it has been consistant.
So really, as long as some sort of constant numbering system is used, I feel a predictable change can be made.
Thanks everyone
dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Here is my updated final measurments, I added 2 degrees to my outside helix measurement to come up with these and for the most part they do fall inline with the rating they were stamped with.

I included the factory split to compare the new helix to the factorys point of when it changes from the straight 44 degree point to the 40 degree portion. This was done to help predict the secondary reaction to the differant helix


Marked #------Measured------Starting #------Finish #------Factory split

48-38------------48-38-----------46.5------------38--------------44

48-40------------48-40-----------47--------------40--------------45

46-38------------46-38-----------45--------------38--------------44

50-38------------48-38-----------46--------------36--------------44

50-36------------54-36-----------52--------------36--------------50.5

MAG2------------50/38-----------50--------------40--------------50

factory
44/40------------44/40------------44--------------40

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