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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking to put a set of anti-stab wheels on my sled and was wondering if anyone had made their own. The store bought ones are pretty pricey for what you get. I was thinking about making my own and am considering using inline roller skate wheels.

Anyone made their own?

If so, what did you use for the wheels?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Well I guess everyone is either out riding, or nobody has experimented with making their own anti-stab wheel kit. I decided to go ahead and give it a try. I did a little research and found that the bearings in the inline skate wheels can definitely take the speed. The specs for the different bearings these wheels use are:

ABEC 1 less than 25,000 rpm
ABEC 3 less than 32,500 rpm
ABEC 5 less than 37,000 rpm
ABEC 7 less than 43,000 rpm

I ordered a set of 8, 72mm diameter wheels with bearings that are supposed to be ABEC-5 for $15 + $10 shipping. A lot cheaper than the $100+ shipped that I see for the commercial anti-stab kits out there. I have all the rest of the stuff I will need except a few pennies worth of bolts. That will give me a spare set of wheels too since I will only need 4. With 72 mm wheels, the max speed according to the above maximum rpms are as follows:

ABEC 1 less than 67 mph
ABEC 3 less than 87 mph
ABEC 5 less than 99 mph
ABEC 7 less than 115 mph

This will be for my Powder Special 600 EFI, so with the ABEC-5 I should be more than fine. Actually, this sled seldom sees over 60 mph anyway, so even the cheapest bearings will work for me.

Once the wheels arrive, I will get to work and will provide picture of the setup so that anyone that wants to duplicate can do so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yep. The bearings on the wheels I bought are sealed according to the seller. I called him to ask this. You have to check though because I believe they can have either seals or just shields. I hope the seller knows the difference. I guess I'll find out when they get here. I won't be able to update until next week as I am leaving tomorrow morning for a trip with my mountain cat. The Powder Special will have to wait.
 

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if you got the sealed bearings they should be ok.
I know a lot about rollerblade wheels, but im afraid I dont know what anti-stab wheels are.
Did you say you were using the rollerblade wheels too? They come in many different durometers (hardness) and profiles. I think most of them are going to get very brittle in the cold, so you prob want the softest durometer you can find. They dont wear very well either.
If you explain to me what a stab wheel is, i can help you pick the best rollerblade wheel. I sold rollerblade stuff and ran a skate park for years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
greenasitgets - sorry I didn't see you reply sooner. Anti-stab wheels mount on the skid frame at the front tips to prevent the front of the skid rail from stabbing through the track. It can happen when off-trail and you hit a stump. My sled has the skid lowered in the frame and the bend at the front of the rails isn't optimum anymore.

Anyway, I got the rollerblade wheels and got them installed. The wheels I got didn't have ABEC-5 bearings like I thought, but they are ABEC-3 which will be good enough for my use. I had some 1" diameter aluminum rod, so I turned some mount pieces.

Here is an overall pic of the setup installed on the skid. I used 4 wheels, 2 outboard and 2 in the center of the track.


And a side view


Here are all the pieces


The center 2 wheels run on a piece of 5/16" all thread rod cut to 4 inches long. The all-thread is screwed into the longer aluminum pieces with the 2 center wheels between. There are 5/16 washers on each side of the wheels and inside the wheels are bushings to hold the separation distance between the bearings when everything is tightened down(each wheel has 2 bearings). Here is a pic of the center assembly. I tightened it with a couple of slip joint pliers.


The outboard 2 wheels run on 5/16" bolts 4 inches long and have another aluminum spacer to position them outside the rails. The outboard wheels also have bushings inside and washers on each side of the wheel. The 4" long bolt goes through the wheel, the 1.4" spacer block, the frame rail and then threads into the longer (3.34") aluminum spacer. Here is a pic of an outboard wheel/spacer and bolt.


I decided to retain the factory rail ends, so I machined a 0.190 long step into the aluminum pieces and modified the end caps. The end caps now have a 3/4" diameter through hole and a 1" counterbore on each side. This was done on a drill press with spade drill bits. Here is what one of the modified end caps looks like.


And the end cap on the rail. I did it this way so that the aluminum spacers are tightened against the rail instead of sandwiching the end cap in there. I mounted the whole thing by enlarging the factory end cap hole in the rail to 5/16".


Its pretty self explanatory what I did from the pictures, but if anyone has questions let me know. I've only run it around the yard so far, but looks like it will work just fine. Total cost was about $17 with wheels and bolts. I had the aluminum and machined them myself. Probably wouldn't pay for someone that didn't have the machining equipment to go this route, but it worked for me.
 

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You are fortunate you have a lathe to make stuff like that. I have just a few more years of house payments and then I'll be adding those kinds of luxuries to my garage life. Nice job on the anti-stab kit!
 

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Looks cool! Looks like that should work fine. if the wheels start chunking try a harder durometer. If they are cracking try a softer one. It might eat bearings faster than you expect, mine always seemed to get crunchy fast.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (greenasitgets @ Jan 14 2010, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Looks cool! Looks like that should work fine. if the wheels start chunking try a harder durometer. If they are cracking try a softer one. It might eat bearings faster than you expect, mine always seemed to get crunchy fast.[/b]
Yeah. Since I don't know how well the bearings are going to hold up is why I decided to find a way to keep the stock rail end pieces. I'll be keeping a close eye on the wheels to see how they do. The wheels I have are 82A.
 

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This is awesome! I was not thrilled by the almost $100 dollar kits out there either. This should be a sticky. Not worthy: Rockerdude
 

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maybe could make yourself a business and sell these kits to guys like me that don't have the equipment to make stuff like this.
 

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Wouldn't something like the serpentine belt idler wheel/bearing from a GM 3.8 V6 also work? the bearings in those idlers have to be rated for constant duty because they are spinning whenever the engine is running. I say the GM3.8V6 because it is such a common engine that the parts would have to be inexpensive and common.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (andyvh @ Jan 15 2010, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Wouldn't something like the serpentine belt idler wheel/bearing from a GM 3.8 V6 also work? the bearings in those idlers have to be rated for constant duty because they are spinning whenever the engine is running. I say the GM3.8V6 because it is such a common engine that the parts would have to be inexpensive and common.[/b]
I'm sure there are lots of wheels you can find that would work. I used the rollerblade wheels because I could find specs for the bearings and the wheels and bearings are ultra cheap. If the cost of wheels gets to around $50 then I'd be to the point where I'd just buy the commercially available anti-stab wheel kit. I'm cheap though and also like to tinker. Heck, the sled I put these on I got for $1000 because it wasn't all together. Previous owner blew the driveshaft bearings and took it apart and never put it back together. I switched to a 2" lug track, 8 tooth drivers and after selling the old track still have less than $1100 in it. (1998 Powder Special in great shape). I like a project.

The wheels I got turned out to be ABEC-3 bearings and are rated to 32,500 rpm which with the 72mm diameter wheel equates to 87 mph. If these bearings don't hold up I will get a set of ABEC-7 bearings good for 43,000 rpm and 115 mph. I that doesn't work I'll probably machine a set of aluminum wheels and use regular bogey wheel bearings. I think the rollerblade whees are going to work though.

As far as the serpentine belt idler, it would be all metal right?? Most likely steel. For me If I were to go all metal I would just make my own aluminum wheels and spec out some bearings held in with snap rings, but I have a lathe. Also, the serpentine idler probably operates around 3X or 4X engine speed because of the pulley ratios. That means in a GM 3.8V6 it will see about 18000 to 24000 rpm assuming a 6000 rpm engine and most of the time about a third of that. I'm sure the bearing would probably be OK, but without knowing the specs I wouldn't want to run it up to 30,000 rpm like it would see on a 85 mph run down the trails.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Just thought I'd let you all know that my DIY anti-stab wheels are doing great. Have had the sled out many times now and just got back from a 4 day off-trail trip with lots of opportunities to stab the track (stumps, rocks, etc buried in the snow) and also some high speed runs on the trail to get to all that off-trail stuff. The wheels are working fine and the bearings still feel good when spinning the wheels around. So far everything is working as planned.
 

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These wheels are in constant contact with the inside of the track, right? Did you have to adjust the track tension to allow for the radius of the wheels versus the rail stubs? Even if your intent for this is for off trail riding, I can see benefits for longer track even for sleds mostly doing groomed trail and lake riding. I can see adding this to my sled this summer.

Keep us updated on the wear of the wheels themselves, as they are not normally used in cold conditions. But also, they typically ride on concrete or asphault, not a synthetic rubber track. So the wear issue should be minimal for their constant duty application here. It'll be interesting to see how they hold up. Although you have calulated the wheel speeds correctly and picked bearings to match, I would have gone up one grade just for the constant duty rating compared to rollerblade use, which is intermittent duty cycle at best. Typically, constant duty ratings half the intermittent load and speed ratings for many components. So an intermittent duty rating of 10,000 rpm may be 5,000 rpm for a constant duty rating.

Good analysis on the wheel speeds though. I have a 2000 T-cat sikd to install in my 96 ZR580 and many of the idler bearings are worn. I calculate 11,000+ rpm for the wheels at 90mph. Using that I will go to the local bearing supply house and buy higher grade sealed bearings to replace the stock OEM bearings, for less than the OEM bearings usually. Thanks for the CAD print too. Am I right to guess you're an engineer or mechanical designer?
 

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on some skids there are 4 back boggi wheels and they have spacers in them, could i take them off an old skid and use them?

i hope you can understand what im asking if not i can try to get a pic
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (free2reem @ Feb 13 2010, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
on some skids there are 4 back boggi wheels and they have spacers in them, could i take them off an old skid and use them?

i hope you can understand what im asking if not i can try to get a pic[/b]
yes you can use them if they are small enough. for anti-stab at the front of the skid they have to be about 3 inches diameter or so. or smaller.
 
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