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Discussion Starter #1
My ZR6000 is in the shop for warrantee repair to replace the track drive shaft. This mechanical problem got me thinking about website forums and human behavior. If one searches on the TY and HC forum for spinning bearing on drive shaft (my issue) you get the impression this problem is very prevalent. I find this curious because there is no mention of this on the this forum. Responding to this perceived issue there exists a Driveshaft Saver product that expands the shaft to reduce the clearance between the shaft and bearing. It is sold to folks who want to be proactive to prevent potential failure. Now, after my driveshaft failure, I find myself wanting to buy this product. Is this just a emotionally based reaction? What say you?
 

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Not too sure about your specific product but for me, I love applying "proactive" improvements and/or 3rd party products to make things better. Especially if its a known factory weak design. To me, it isn't about the need to "mod something". It's more about doing a proactive fix that factory builders should have done in the first place. But they didn't - because it would have cost them money (which means less profits in their pockets). If a low cost solution and will "most often" save hundreds of dollars (or prevent down time) for me in the future, then do it. Works for me...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Not too sure about your specific product but for me, I love applying "proactive" improvements and/or 3rd party products to make things better... If a low cost solution and will "most often" save hundreds of dollars (or prevent down time) for me in the future, then do it. Works for me...
My post brings up two separate but related issues. The first is why a problem that is thought to be very prevalent on one forum is not covered on another. The other issue that you addressed is about justification for a proactive improvement to bolster a perceived design flaw. Thank you. Anyone else have a opinion on either issue?
 

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There are a few different ways to make sure the bearing doesn’t spin on the shaft. Yamaha will have the same issue and the bearing isn’t the best quality either. I heard of centre punching the shaft and a home machined cap threaded into the end of the shaft and now the piece you identified. Cat has a few areas that could be improved. I have heard of a guy tig welding the hardware on the chain adjuster because it is a known issue among other improvements like simple clutching corrections and adjustments. There are some really smart people writing about cats and not just on AC or HCS. The cheap sealed bearings can be greased and probably should be every year. YouTube has a Yamaha guy showing how he did his and he was the centre punch method. I also follow the ontario conditions forum and there are some great ideas in the technical section, one fellow in particular has some very creative ideas he shares along with pictures and instructions. (Search yamacat) There are some genius ideas, you just have to pick what design flaw you want to proactively correct.
Maybe there needs to be a forum line with only procross mods.
 

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I don’t think it’s a huge issue. You would have seen that on your 7000 if it was a common problem. I have yet to see that on any of my procrosses.
 

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Nothing to do with part in question but what I've noticed on this forum. There's been a lot more threads started for older chassis' and that's pre-twin spar too. I know we see the number for posts and views but that's totals. We don't see year over year changes. Less posts from longtime members and way more from new members. Heck you just have to look at the Firecat/Sabercat forum to see it's only second to the older ZR chassis' in post yet the sleds only span 5 years. I see this on the ATV side of Arctic Chat too. Lots of posts for older stuff. BTW, I don't belong to TY or HCS but a quick view of HCS I saw posts from guys who have not posted on here for a while. Plus if another forum has 4 times the membership, chances are better you'll see a post relative to your search or issue.
 

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DVW, I think I get your forum question.
I have seen how single users can continually push issues on specific forums. We see it in social media a lot. Use a couple of good buzz words and you can build your own audience. I'm not a fan of creating hype. I'd rather see people talk about the real issues.

BTW, I've seen the expander device. It is an interestingly simple idea.
I have had my share of parts fail over the years and I try to address those in particular. I have had good luck with driveshafts so far. Ironically, I just replaced that bearing at almost 5,000 miles and the shaft was still good. I checked it over pretty good because of what I've seen mentioned. I do see how free play could create problems in a hurry. The C clip retainer doesn't hold real tight. I think we would see more longevity with a compression retainer vs. a C clip. That type of modification would be nearly impossible with the current driveshaft. The expander device doesn't address the C clip retainer setup.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
DVW, I think I get your forum question.
I have seen how single users can continually push issues on specific forums. We see it in social media a lot. Use a couple of good buzz words and you can build your own audience. I'm not a fan of creating hype. I'd rather see people talk about the real issues...
Great feedback. I am somewhat clueless when it comes to political and social issues. My 7000 had significant brake failure do to caliper wear relatively early (10k) during my watch. I thought it was a big deal until logic prevailed and I realized that I was the only one with the problem. This morning I checked the caliper on my current machine at the same mile mark and it was good. Some problems are unique to one specific part. It may be possible for some problems to be blown out of proportion by social media. Or maybe not. Any thoughts out there?
 

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It is amazing how some things get blown all out of proportion and some barely get a blip on the radar. Give a small problem to the right person and it will be blown up all over.

I usually run the same machines side by side mile after mile. I could go on and on about the problems with one machine that is not happening to the other same machine. There wouldn't be much point. Some just act up. I usually want to know why. It might prevent the issue down the road for other machines. If I see the same thing happen to all the machines, I really want to find the cause and a cure. Maybe I should use buzzwords and language at that point, but it is just not my style.
 

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I had the driveshaft issue on my 13 F800 at 5,000 miles and I had it on my sons 15 ZR4000 RR at 3,000 miles. Bearing was still good on both machines but it spun on the shaft and made a mess. Both Replacment shafts with new bearings still felt loose to me so I center punched both and so far so good. I do grease all of my bearings every year.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
My ZR6000 is in the shop for warrantee repair to replace the track drive shaft. This mechanical problem got me thinking about website forums (first issue) and human behavior (second issue)...
OK I will give you my opinion on the two issues that came to light from my drive shaft problem. First issue deals with forums. If a problem is reported to be prevalent in one forum and not reported on another than the problem is probably not prevalent. On the second issue (human emotion), after my first driveshaft failure my feeling to spend time and money to improve longevity does not make good business sense. Maybe if the failure rate is greater than one in ten it would be a good bet but I doubt that the problem is that prevalent.
 

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Some people really like to shout off when they think they have an audience, and they make a small problem huge. Social media thing, I guess. Maybe some of these issues are prevalent, maybe not. It seems there are a lot more people on HCS and TY. I found HCS to be a bit hostile for my liking. As far as the driveshaft goes, I had over 14,000 on my '12 1100na, changed the bearings as a PM deal at around 8,000 miles. The bearings were fine, the shaft is still in the machine now. On my '16 7000, I just passed 5,000, and will do all the drivetrain bearings after this season, likley after another 1,500 or so miles. Everything seems OK.
 

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You may be right about the spinning driveshaft bearing being over exaggerated.
My brief search, to count over at TY4Stroke, only revealed a dozen + reported cases. Drop in the bucket compared to the number of ProCross machines on the snow.
How many go unreported? Who knows?
Nothing, until now, on Arctic Chat.

Our local snowmobile club, Brainerd SnoDeos, has a Viper with a spinning driveshaft bearing.
That's about one out of eight ProCross chassis in the club.

Yet Barn of Parts saw the need, invested may months of development, and came up with a devise that insures the bearing will not spin.
They have sold many. Even some dealers have purchase the devise for resale.

I try to be as proactive as possible with maintenance.
And spending dollars to make our machines perform and last longer is not a problem for me.
That's why I run Berstroms Triple Point, Dupont Slides, Geasable A-arm Bushings, etc.

I consider the drive shaft wedge another level of insurance that our season will not have down time due to mechanical reasons.
Cost is less than the price of a decent set of carbides.

Car accidents a very infrequent too. Yet many of us still carry full coverage on some of our vehicles.

I appreciate the high mileage riders on this and other forums. It's a glimpse into the future of what could come.
Thanks for everyone's input.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
FrozenTows
Good point on insurance against downtime. I lost one week to this issue. That’s 10% of my winter and it happened during prime.
 

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Frozen I reported it here twice already for 2 of my sleds, I do not think it is a wide spread problem but I do think it goes on noticed a lot. I never would have known there was a problem if I did not take it apart or it finally failed fully. I am big on Maintenance, And I take the sled apart in the off season pretty far to go over everything. When you put a new bearing on a new shaft its a slip fit and you will see how loose it is on there, From my understanding the Rotor is supposed to help tighten things up, but thea loosens up to and the clip wheres the splines down and that loosens up and the rotor getsa ridge worn it also.
The shaft pictures are from my 800 and the rotors are from my 4000 RR, both very similar damage. to the other rotor and shaft, 1 shaft was 2.52 stadard drivers and the other was extroverts.
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