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New to Cat 2 years ago and first time I haven't ran Amsoil in 15 years, I've been spoiled.

I didn't check my valves after the first season, and just pulled them out this weekend. That's 2 seasons (3,000 miles) with Ctec 2 oil. Valves with 10k on them using Amsoil have never looked anything like this.

Yikes. Am I running too rich, or is this expected?

15 ZR 6000.
 

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The first break in miles dumps a ton of oil and gas into the motor. After the first year mine were bad. After the second they were ok.
 

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I have been wondering if during warm weather riding one could get away with mixing some other high end 2-stroke oil with their arctic cat oil? Was thinking like a 50/50 mix only in warmer weather to cut back cost a bit?
Hell Ive been running 87 octane for 95% of the season thus far (3000km) and I find it runs more efficient on 87 vs. 91.
 

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I have a buddy that has a CTech 600 High Country and a 800 CTech High Country........Beats the crap out of both of them. Only runs Mystic full synthetic........Zero problems.....
 

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I have a buddy that has a CTech 600 High Country and a 800 CTech High Country........Beats the crap out of both of them. Only runs Mystic full synthetic........Zero problems.....
I am of the opinion Mystic JT4 is a good quality oil with very good cold weather properties. :wink
 

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I have a buddy that has a CTech 600 High Country and a 800 CTech High Country........Beats the crap out of both of them. Only runs Mystic full synthetic........Zero problems.....
And what years are his sleds and how many miles do they have? What temperature does he run his sleds?

I am of the opinion Mystic JT4 is a good quality oil with very good cold weather properties. :wink
In the past we ran Mystic (Citgo Petroleum-Venezuela) in the old Ski-Doo carburetor 800-R's and my friends sons 600 Polaris Fusion, without a problem. I once used the stuff in my Suzuki 800 H.O. too. But, all those sleds had gear driven mechanical oil pumps. These new engines (now all three manufactures) use computer driven electric oil pumps that are programed to deliver a very specific amount of oil, all while the computer is basing this on a very specific oil type and viscosity at a number of predetermined temperatures. So far no oil has been approved for this type of use except C-tec 2 oil. Amsoil "claims" it meets the requirements but issued no specific data to prove it. They just "say" it's ok.

The Cat oil isn't that much different in price especially when you buy it in 2-1/2 gallon jugs
 

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600 is the first year CTech(2015 I think). Around 7,000 miles. 800 is a 2018, around 3,000 miles. I've seen him run them hard from 50 degrees down to well below Zero, never once letting up breaking trails in the north Maine Woods and Quebec... I seriously doubt you will find someone who abuses a sled more than this guy. I don't think his sleds ever had a drop of Cat oil in them, even during break in. By the way, he works for a Mystic distributor so price is MUCH lower than Cat oil for him.
 

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600 is the first year CTech(2015 I think). Around 7,000 miles. 800 is a 2018, around 3,000 miles. I've seen him run them hard from 50 degrees down to well below Zero, never once letting up breaking trails in the north Maine Woods and Quebec... I seriously doubt you will find someone who abuses a sled more than this guy. I don't think his sleds ever had a drop of Cat oil in them, even during break in. By the way, he works for a Mystic distributor so price is MUCH lower than Cat oil for him.
We got a guy like that, more money than God, pounds the livin $hit out of every sled he gets because he don't care, he gets a new one every year. Always gets a new Doo, been praying to god he blows one of them up but he never does, nothing ever breaks amazingly. Makes fun of my Suzuki 800 because I use so much more fuel and oil. Oh well , one day he'll get his.
 

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A few additional random thoughts:

I am a huge Klotz fan and have been using it for decades in my Suzuki/Cat engines.

But in my Ctec-2 600, I am running the Cat oil. I like it. I like the bag. I like the smell.

Out if curiosity, I sent an email to the Klotz Technical Service email address and Amsoil. As expected, they both said you could run their oil in the Cat 600/800 Ctec-2.

I did some preventative maintenance on both sleds last week. I found that the carbon buildup on the powervalves was slightly lower on my wife's sled running Klotz. And the power valves were easier to remove. However, the difference was minor.

I just filled both of my sleds up this morning with oil. THERE IS NO QUESTION that Cat's Ctec-2 oil that I dumped in to my 600 is thinner than the Klotz that I dumped in to my wife's Suzuki 800.
 

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As long as the oil has similar cold flow properties to the CTEC2 oil I think it will work just fine. Oil viscosity will change the pump flow rate (higher viscosity or the thicker the fluid, the lower the flow rate). Cat would have almost assuredly used a positive displacement pump that would limit the effects of viscosity on flow rate.

Klotz, Amsoil Interceptor, etc. should all work just fine. That being said, I use the Cat CTEC2 oil exclusively. It was cheap at Haydays, about $25 per gallon. Country Cat has the 2.5 gallon jugs for $107. I bring the gallon jug with me on trips and refill it from the 2.5 gallon jug when I get home. I'll buy a case of the gallon jugs next year at Haydays.

Gone are the days when the aftermarket oils are way better than the factory ones. Almost all are synthetic now anyways. They start with a good synthetic base stock and the main differences will be in the additive packs.
 

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As long as the oil has similar cold flow properties to the CTEC2 oil I think it will work just fine. Oil viscosity will change the pump flow rate (higher viscosity or the thicker the fluid, the lower the flow rate). Cat would have almost assuredly used a positive displacement pump that would limit the effects of viscosity on flow rate.
That oil pump is electric, not mechanical. You put a thicker oil is there somethings got to work harder to get the SAME flow rate which it's going to try and do, not a lower flow rate. That computer is telling it how much to pump and when, and it gets feedback if it is or not (this according to a Cat engineer at the Milwaukee Snow Show).

All that being said we go to this,,,,
As long as the oil has similar cold flow properties to the CTEC2 oil I think it will work just fine.
And there in lies the whole problem, the perception from everyone that ran Klotz, Mystic, Amsoil (or whatever else) before. They all liked that stuff so they wanna SAY it's ok to use. The problem with your statement is none of these oils has met the spec of Ctec2. You Claim they do, you can call them and they will SAY it's ok to use, but no one has came across with data to prove that their oil met the spec of Cats oil. And I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Ski-Doo Oil, and Polaris oil. All three companies now use computer driven electric oil pumps. All three (you notice I said three because Yamaha is out of business) systems computer programing is to deliver a very specific amount of oil with a very specific viscosity. You wanna use that other stuff , fine use it at YOUR own risk but do go saying it's ok to everyone because no company has yet to come forward to prove it.
 

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Here are a couple of stats for C-tech 2 oil and Klotz SNOWMOBILE TECHNIPLATE TC-W3 All data comes from the product MSDS. All in all- they seem comparable in density and pour point.

A/C C-Tech 2 Oil Klotz Snow Techniplate
Specific Gravity / Relative Density .845 .869
Pour Point < -40°C -38.3°C
Viscosity 26 cSt at 40°C 7.10 (cSt @ 100°C) :
Flash Point 113°C 135°C
Weight per gallon: 7.45lb pkg weight/gal 7.258 lbs/gal
Other: Pine Scent - Trade secret
0.1-0.5%

The higher flash point is important if you ride hard. Higher flash point means the oil should provide better protection as it didn't get burned off as quick. If you ride slow and steady - the ctech 2 would be better. Pine scent is interesting. Arctic cat wanted a good smelling oil. Well played on their part.
 

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A few additional random thoughts:

I am a huge Klotz fan and have been using it for decades in my Suzuki/Cat engines.

But in my Ctec-2 600, I am running the Cat oil. I like it. I like the bag. I like the smell.

Out if curiosity, I sent an email to the Klotz Technical Service email address and Amsoil. As expected, they both said you could run their oil in the Cat 600/800 Ctec-2.

I did some preventative maintenance on both sleds last week. I found that the carbon buildup on the powervalves was slightly lower on my wife's sled running Klotz. And the power valves were easier to remove. However, the difference was minor.

I just filled both of my sleds up this morning with oil. THERE IS NO QUESTION that Cat's Ctec-2 oil that I dumped in to my 600 is thinner than the Klotz that I dumped in to my wife's Suzuki 800.
Not arguing, but does your wife ride as hard as you do? Reason I ask, is that harder ridden sleds do build up more heat within their heat soaked components, thus leading to oils becoming baked onto the valves a little bit more in several cases versus the same sled being ridden even just a little less harder (less WOT)

Again, not arguing, just an observation from decades gone past.
 

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Not arguing, but does your wife ride as hard as you do? Reason I ask, is that harder ridden sleds do build up more heat within their heat soaked components, thus leading to oils becoming baked onto the valves a little bit more in several cases versus the same sled being ridden even just a little less harder (less WOT)

Again, not arguing, just an observation from decades gone past.
Not really a great comparison, as the CTechs run somewhere around 100 degrees on the thermostat, and the Zuke much warmer near 140.......Apples and oranges IMO.
 

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Just one example i can provide...

Not really a great comparison, as the CTechs run somewhere around 100 degrees on the thermostat, and the Zuke much warmer near 140.......Apples and oranges IMO.
Well then, allow me to waive my magic wand and give you just one POSITIVE comparison then...

I used to tech for a polaris dealer, customer had two (2) 2003 MY 600 Edge classic’s, one for him, the other his wife.
Same oils, same oil pumping rates (actually measured and confirmed) that we’re set up as close to a carbon copy of the other as possible (short of actual blueprinting of the two), and the one ridden by hubby was the one with caked valves versus her’s, which did have some oil buildup, but were not caked like his valves were.

He hauled a shanty and worked the sled harder than she did her’s, yet her’s had a few more miles on it (around 75-100 more if I recall correctly)?
Same oils, same jetting, same clutching, belts, blah-blah-blah-blah... etc, etc..

There, is that more of an apples to apples comparison for you?
 

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Not really actually.......You're comparing carbureted engines with vacuum operated valves to fuel injected sleds with servo operated valves that have multiple valve motions.
Now, the total amount of fuel and oil burned, as well as throttle position(which controls oil flow) will make a huge difference in the amount of gunk built up, but engine heat is controlled by the thermostat and conditions.
 

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Not really actually.......You're comparing carbureted engines with vacuum operated valves to fuel injected sleds with servo operated valves that have multiple valve motions.
Now, the total amount of fuel and oil burned, as well as throttle position(which controls oil flow) will make a huge difference in the amount of gunk built up, but engine heat is controlled by the thermostat and conditions.
The engine heat (as in the fire within) is controlled & in a sense created by the mixture ratio (programing) and the amount of work (throttle) used or done.

The "cooling" is regulated by the thermostat. Can you burn up and engine with a 100 degree Fahrenheit thermostat? Yes! So the thermostat is regulating the cooling.

Can you burn up an engine in -25 below weather? Yes! So the conditions do not matter (all systems being satisfied of coarse, no running in the desert with no snow ect.)
 

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Not arguing, but does your wife ride as hard as you do? Reason I ask, is that harder ridden sleds do build up more heat within their heat soaked components, thus leading to oils becoming baked onto the valves a little bit more in several cases versus the same sled being ridden even just a little less harder (less WOT)

Again, not arguing, just an observation from decades gone past.

@C-note - I think that's a valid question and a good point. There's no question that I am pushing my Cat Ctec-2 600 much harder than my wife is pushing her Suzuki 800. I agree 100% that additional factors come in to play: Engine design, APV valve profile, amount of oil, etc. probably all factor in. Not to mention that her 800 is barely working up a sweat when she is riding it. So agreed- maybe not apples and oranges, but there are some significant differences between the two engines, and how that impacts carbon build-up on the APV valves.

I plan to continue using Cat's Ctec-2 oil in my 600. Again, I really like the bag, smell, ease of pouring, etc. I also don't want to be a Guinea Pig by using an alternate oil in my 600.

In my wife's Suzuki 800, I'll continue to use Klotz. I have logged decades with that oil in Suzuki 440/550/580/700/800/900/1000 engines, and they seem to work well together.
 
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That oil pump is electric, not mechanical. You put a thicker oil is there somethings got to work harder to get the SAME flow rate which it's going to try and do, not a lower flow rate. That computer is telling it how much to pump and when, and it gets feedback if it is or not (this according to a Cat engineer at the Milwaukee Snow Show).

All that being said we go to this,,,, And there in lies the whole problem, the perception from everyone that ran Klotz, Mystic, Amsoil (or whatever else) before. They all liked that stuff so they wanna SAY it's ok to use. The problem with your statement is none of these oils has met the spec of Ctec2. You Claim they do, you can call them and they will SAY it's ok to use, but no one has came across with data to prove that their oil met the spec of Cats oil. And I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Ski-Doo Oil, and Polaris oil. All three companies now use computer driven electric oil pumps. All three (you notice I said three because Yamaha is out of business) systems computer programing is to deliver a very specific amount of oil with a very specific viscosity. You wanna use that other stuff , fine use it at YOUR own risk but do go saying it's ok to everyone because no company has yet to come forward to prove it.
Who said the pump was mechanical and not electrical? Not me. The pump would be a positive displacement pump controlled by an electric motor. Huge swings in viscosity would change the flow rate of the pump. When they are already injecting less oil, the amount injected is critical.

Cat published an SDS as required by law but they don't have a specific test standard the oils must meet. Many of the oil companies have done testing and showed their oils worked just fine in CTEC2 engines. On the flip side, I have seen no documented engine damage proven to be due to the oil when a high quality synthetic is used.

I run the Cat oil as I find the price is reasonable, it is easy to get, it smells good, and the low temperature properties are good. My engine spent the first 1,600 miles of it's life on Amsoil Interceptor. I have zero concerns of any engine damage due to the use of Interceptor. The cylinders, pistons, and rings looked flawless. Power valves only had the normal carbon buildup but still actuated fine.
 

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While I agree that huge swings in density and Viscosity could be problematic, the density difference between say Klotz and CTEC2 oil is .025. I can't imagine the tolerance of the oil pump to be that exacting that it would actually result in engine failure or excess wear.

That being said, if they deny a warranty claim due to use of after-market oil, wouldn't that require publishing the specs of specific oil requirements? The claim is that CTEC2 is the only oil to meet Arctic Cat's specifications for use in their motor. I would expect that if there was significant risk of excess wear and failure - it would be stated that "Oil for use in this snowmobile must be at least XX pour rate at XX degrees, XX% dense and XXcSt viscosity @ 40C.

All of that aside, I use CTEC2 but I'm a fan of Klotz as well. I can see switching down the road as this topic develops. It would be a bold move to deny a warranty claim over after market oil.
 
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