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Discussion Starter #1
Hey there guys,
I have been having some trouble with my top end speed with my 06 crossfire 700. It seems to top out at about 85mph. My clutching right now is 77g weights, 165/310 primary spring, Goodwin blue/yellow secondary spring, d and d shift assist, cdd 75 helix, and an oem 044 belt.
Is it a problem with my clutching or could it be something else. Any help or any info on what your crossfire 700 top speed is, would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
 

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Is it stock? My dads 06 only did 86ish across the lake. Im thinking that's normal for the year..He had 120 studs as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Shoot pic of the primary clutch drive sheaves so I can see if it has been shifting all the way out or has signs of belt slippage....

Cat had some really sh/tty OEM clutching in those...
I have recently replaced the primary so I hope its not a problem with it,
heres some pictures. I also put some of my secondary incase theres something that looks bad on it.
thanks for the help
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Is it stock? My dads 06 only did 86ish across the lake. Im thinking that's normal for the year..He had 120 studs as well.
Yes it is all stock, thanks for chiming in because I have heard everyone else say these sleds should be doing about 100. and in my mind I don't see why a 700 that puts out that much power cant hit 100mph. Mine also has studs In it
 

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Note: my server is limited to one pic per post

Look at the very exact center of this pic (and the one I'll put in next post).. See where the color has semi-drastic change? That is about all the further your belt is reaching in MOST CIRCUMSTANCES.... That said, you are probably reaching approx a 1:1 ratio in shifting... With belt slippage ... Full 1.2:1 ratio will seriously add speed up top

What rpm's are you pulling under WOT during your upshift? AND, are the clutches too hot to touch right after a hard pass?

I'm asking this, as it looks like there's not enough primary weight to shiftout fully... Most of these sleds shifted to 1:1 or slightly better OEM stock..
Using the softer compound (and slightly longer) 3211104 Polaris belt (been superseded to 3211115 I think??), coupled with slightly lightening of stock OEM 70gr weights to around the 65-66gr range, made these sleds easily exceed 105 under good conditions of smooth surfaces (hardpack or ice) with slight powder to help libe the hyfax... This combo worked best between 7700-7850 RPMS...

In a thread where I've LONG AGO deleted a lot of my posts (due to a few folks using my info and telling others it was their idea), there are some folks responses to the success that we got with member " billme1's " 2006 EB 700 ... Unfortunately a lot of others pulled their pics of their own posts as well... To read particular thread, click onto the tiny "throwback" arrow in the lower quote down in my signature... (DonoBBD's post quote)

Previously in that thread (2006-2007 season) there had been primary pics were shown where the primarys had been having big issues with belts slipping and forming/leaving discolored "heat rings" as witness marks... Your newer primary is already showing signs of those (hence why I suggest looking closely to see where the aluminum has darkened), those are the short use life (so far) heat ring marks beginning... I also see some rubber beginning to leave marks on outside sheave in other pic shot of primary (more on that later)

Primary sheave..
 

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Secondary belt travel witness marks

Here the pic shows how there is still close to 1/2" of lower sheave surface (basically) not seeing belt contact... In other words, you have some more shift ratio to be found... (See comments later in post concerning OEM belts bottoming once tuned)

Some of the secondarys back then had a white plastic sleeve (limiter) to keep belt from going too far down into the secondary and hitting helix surface... Occasionally, some were fine and didn't interfere with anything (billme1's happened to be one of those), and some were severely limiting belt travel, stopping a sled around the 90-95 mph range from upshifting any further.. It's worth taking a look into just in case this could be playing a role here...

Belt compounds play a big role in a sleds clutching as well, Cats Kevlar belts require more weight to prevent slippage, this confuses some who've never tuned cvt systems before, as usually, when loading down the primary to pull engine r's down, it requires either a shallower angled helix, or a stiffer secondary spring to raise rpms back up without creating slippage up front again.... ;)

This is where the Polaris 3211104/3211115 compound/length become interesting... The added length requires the adding of more shims (belt deflection adjusting washers) to sit belt higher in secondary, this alone adds more bottom end grunt,mas the larger diameter (radius) of the larger circumference of belt, in effect, lowers gearing..
Then, the added length (upon shift out), creates a situation where when the belt begins to near the primarys top edges, the belt hasn't ALREADY BOTTOMED in the secondary upon the helix (which the shorter Cat belts promoted)...

In essence, you're getting a " wider ratio " to shift through, and tuning the engines RPMS to it properly, makes these things a rocket!!!

The rubber on outer sheave up front is more than likely incorrect driven (secondary) clutch offset.. (Cats specs on these swallowed... If you know what I mean?)
 

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Hey there guys,
I have been having some trouble with my top end speed with my 06 crossfire 700. It seems to top out at about 85mph. My clutching right now is 77g weights, 165/310 primary spring, Goodwin blue/yellow secondary spring, d and d shift assist, cdd 75 helix, and an oem 044 belt.
Is it a problem with my clutching or could it be something else. Any help or any info on what your crossfire 700 top speed is, would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

My old XF700 box stock would pull 113MPH on the speedo if you held it wide open for about 2.5 miles. (The store is roughly 2.5 to 3 miles from my house and it would be tapped out by the time I pass my yard) After I did clutch work it would run about the same top end but it will pull a ton harder all the way to the top and the slip marks were gone cnote is talking about.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Here the pic shows how there is still close to 1/2" of lower sheave surface (basically) not seeing belt contact... In other words, you have some more shift ratio to be found... (See comments later in post concerning OEM belts bottoming once tuned)

Some of the secondarys back then had a white plastic sleeve (limiter) to keep belt from going too far down into the secondary and hitting helix surface... Occasionally, some were fine and didn't interfere with anything (billme1's happened to be one of those), and some were severely limiting belt travel, stopping a sled around the 90-95 mph range from upshifting any further.. It's worth taking a look into just in case this could be playing a role here...

Belt compounds play a big role in a sleds clutching as well, Cats Kevlar belts require more weight to prevent slippage, this confuses some who've never tuned cvt systems before, as usually, when loading down the primary to pull engine r's down, it requires either a shallower angled helix, or a stiffer secondary spring to raise rpms back up without creating slippage up front again.... ;)

This is where the Polaris 3211104/3211115 compound/length become interesting... The added length requires removal of more shims (belt deflection adjusting washers) to sit belt higher in secondary, this alone adds more bottom end grunt,mas the larger diameter (radius) of the larger circumference of belt, in effect, lowers gearing..
Then, the added length (upon shift out), creates a situation where when the belt begins to near the primarys top edges, the belt hasn't ALREADY BOTTOMED in the secondary upon the helix (which the shorter Cat belts promoted)...

In essence, you're getting a " wider ratio " to shift through, and tuning the engines RPMS to it properly, makes these things a rocket!!!

The rubber on outer sheave up front is more than likely incorrect driven (secondary) clutch offset.. (Cats specs on these swallowed... If you know what I mean?)
Thanks so much for the help guys,
so this season I switched to the 044 oem belt (stock is an 036) I read the 044 pulled a lot better and was a softer compound so I thought id give it a try because with the 036 I was having the same low top speed problem. I pull around 7200 rpm i think. And my clutches surprisingly didn't seem to hot which confused my because i figured it must have been belt slippage.
Right now i have some spare weights in my tool box that are 65g. If i just put those on will i need to change all my springs too? If you don't think that would work what all would you recommend?
Again thank you for your help guys
 

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how many miles are on your sled? The secondary clutches are know for having the bushings fail and binding up as well.
 

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Just went back and read OP... 77gr wts and the spring/helix combo seems a little overmatched by that much weight.. Usually, most helixes are steeper for quicker upshift and finish out within 1-3* +/- of OEM spec.. That primary spring offers higher engagement, but really isn't a lot stiffer than OEM was at full compression, so I'm thinking that additional 7grams over stock weights may be playing a huge role here...
Stick those 65's in it and see how it runs... If anything, the r's should hit lower 8k's, maybe as high as 8400...?

We'll then have something to go off of if it makes a big difference.. Bushings, possible ign. coil, possible exh can, (I think u said "stock" though?)....? We just need a list of everything to begin discussing deeper..
 

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Discussion Starter #13
how many miles are on your sled? The secondary clutches are know for having the bushings fail and binding up as well.
Sled has around 7300 miles on it, I was concerned that the secondary may have problems seeing how I needed to replace the primary. What do I look for? and what is the fix for the bushings binding?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Just went back and read OP... 77gr wts and the spring/helix combo seems a little overmatched by that much weight.. Usually, most helixes are steeper for quicker upshift and finish out within 1-3* +/- of OEM spec.. That primary spring offers higher engagement, but really isn't a lot stiffer than OEM was at full compression, so I'm thinking that additional 7grams over stock weights may be playing a huge role here...
Stick those 65's in it and see how it runs... If anything, the r's should hit lower 8k's, maybe as high as 8400...?

We'll then have something to go off of if it makes a big difference.. Bushings, possible ign. coil, possible exh can, (I think u said "stock" though?)....? We just need a list of everything to begin discussing deeper..
Ill go out tomorrow and open it up and give you the exact rpms its pulling. Just to make sure my 7200rpm is accurate. I should post by about 11 AM tomorrow
The sled doesn't have a can on it, i bought the sled a few years back and the only thing i have tried to do is clutching. I don't think it has any other mods to it.
The sled always starts up great, compression is 125psi each side.
How much performance would the bad bushings be robbing?
 

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Sled has around 7300 miles on it, I was concerned that the secondary may have problems seeing how I needed to replace the primary. What do I look for? and what is the fix for the bushings binding?

slop in the sheaves. 7300 miles is a lot for those clutches. The fix is a new clutch.
 

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Ill go out tomorrow and open it up and give you the exact rpms its pulling. Just to make sure my 7200rpm is accurate. I should post by about 11 AM tomorrow
The sled doesn't have a can on it, i bought the sled a few years back and the only thing i have tried to do is clutching. I don't think it has any other mods to it.
The sled always starts up great, compression is 125psi each side.
How much performance would the bad bushings be robbing?
While it will run fine on it, 125 per cylinder is 15-20 psi lower than a fresh topend... Could be attributed to a guage used that's not MAC or Snapon..?

Also, I was reading an old post of my buddies years ago.. Seems his had (?) 75 gram stock WTS....? It's been a while (2005/2006).. :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
While it will run fine on it, 125 per cylinder is 15-20 psi lower than a fresh topend... Could be attributed to a guage used that's not MAC or Snapon..?

Also, I was reading an old post of my buddies years ago.. Seems his had (?) 75 gram stock WTS....? It's been a while (2005/2006).. :lol:
Yea it is not an amazing gauge that I use, but I have not put a top end in it yet since ive owned it. I am trying to run it at least one more season before I do a top end. Yea the 75g are stock, mine got torn apart by a bad primary.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
While it will run fine on it, 125 per cylinder is 15-20 psi lower than a fresh topend... Could be attributed to a guage used that's not MAC or Snapon..?

Also, I was reading an old post of my buddies years ago.. Seems his had (?) 75 gram stock WTS....? It's been a while (2005/2006).. :lol:
Well I guess you may have been onto something about the compression. Was out today to see what rpms I was pulling and I blew it up.
One thing that I noticed as I started to tear it apart are the powervalves are insanely hard to get out (despite me cleaning them about 300 miles ago) could this be the reason why she blew?
With these cylinders being nickel plated that means if there are any marks on them they need to be replaced too?
 

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