Arctic Chat : Arctic Cat Forum banner
21 - 40 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,165 Posts
1/4" drill bit will take of a nice amount of weight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
I have an 05 500, and I put 27" 598's on it. It handles them fine, but a little more grunt always helps out. I don't want to lose to much top end since I still trail ride with it as well, so I am trying to staddle the fence as much as possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
ok heres one for ya. i got the dalton rollers and EPI white secondary in slot b-2. when i first started putting it back together i had the secondary spring in b-4 and the belt was rubbing like stated above. i moved it to b-2 and the problem stopped... why would this be?

i also grinded a lil bit on the wall before i decided to call Steel Horses and ask them some questions
if i was to replace the secondary spring back to b-4 what would my results be?

and shimming is not recomended if you have rollers right?

and as far as the rollers,(this is a stupid question) but i knocked out the ole ones and pressed in the new ones is that how you do it? or did i do something wrong? just making sure.



sorry for all the questions, Im learning haha
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
I am a newbie to the CV tranny stuff, however i watch a 5 minute Video on the Dalton website and definately feel like I could do the work without a problem. Now it is just getting my head wrapped around what to do for what I want. According to the video, yes you did the rollers correctly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,867 Posts
My reply in bold font to your questions

ok heres one for ya. i got the dalton rollers and EPI white secondary in slot b-2. when i first started putting it back together i had the secondary spring in b-4 and the belt was rubbing like stated above. i moved it to b-2 and the problem stopped... why would this be?

The extra pressure on the spring in the secondary is causing it to ride higher in the secondary and lower in the groove in the primary. I would double check that the primary fixed cover plate is fully seated down against the sleeve and the grooves of the plate mesh with the splines on shaft. If the primary isnt fully seated, the belt will ride lower in the primary pulley and higher in the secondary pulley. A very common problem when torquing down the nut on the primary is to torque down against the belt instead of torquing down against the sleeve. When tightening down the primary nut, open the secondary by hand a little and get the belt as far down in the secondary pulley groove as you can by hand. this allows the belt to ride higher in the primary and provide for proper clearance & tightening of the primary nut. If the primary is tightened against the belt, after a few minutes/hours of running the nut may come off or loose

i also grinded a lil bit on the wall before i decided to call Steel Horses and ask them some questions
if i was to replace the secondary spring back to b-4 what would my results be?

Hard to say for certain, if you ground enough off then it may have enough clearance. Setting B-3 on the secondary would be tighter then B-2 but not as tight as B-4 would be. I still wonder if the primary was tightened down properly as i describe above??????????

and shimming is not recomended if you have rollers right?

Speedwerx sells rollers that are smaller in diameter then stock rollers. This will lower the gearing for that initial punch off the line from a dead stop. You cannot use Speedwerxs rollers and shims at the same time. You may be able to use shims with the Dalton rollers if the Dalton rollers are the same diameter as the stock rollers. Shimming the face plate out about 1.5-2mm will have the same effect as the smaller diameter Speedwerx rollers.

and as far as the rollers,(this is a stupid question) but i knocked out the ole ones and pressed in the new ones is that how you do it? or did i do something wrong? just making sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
421 Posts
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wyo_H1_Cat @ Mar 2 2009, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Speedwerx sells rollers that are smaller in diameter then stock rollers. This will lower the gearing for that initial punch off the line from a dead stop. You cannot use Speedwerxs rollers and shims at the same time. You may be able to use shims with the Dalton rollers if the Dalton rollers are the same diameter as the stock rollers. Shimming the face plate out about 1.5-2mm will have the same effect as the smaller diameter Speedwerx rollers.

and as far as the rollers,(this is a stupid question) but i knocked out the ole ones and pressed in the new ones is that how you do it? or did i do something wrong? just making sure.[/b]

I have the small speed werx rollers, first off they also send you 3 washers to shim out the cover so it dont rub. I have the small rollers and 2mm shims. Mine will pull a wheelie in HIGH with the plow. Top speed is 54mph, pulls to 50 fast and creeps to 54. Completely stock it did 60mph. Now I'm starting to wonder if i put in the stock rollers and keep the shims in what the low end and top would be/change. On nyrocks site for the king quads those guys are clutching to rev limiter. Cats red line is 6800, i wonder if suz is the same. I have drilled my speed werx rollers from 24 grams to 19.8 grams. it makes a Huge improvement. Questions is when its fully wound out its around 6000, should i lighten them even more rpms??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,867 Posts
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
I have the small speed werx rollers, first off they also send you 3 washers to shim out the cover so it dont rub. I have the small rollers and 2mm shims. Mine will pull a wheelie in HIGH with the plow. Top speed is 54mph, pulls to 50 fast and creeps to 54. Completely stock it did 60mph. Now I'm starting to wonder if i put in the stock rollers and keep the shims in what the low end and top would be/change. On nyrocks site for the king quads those guys are clutching to rev limiter. Cats red line is 6800, i wonder if suz is the same. I have drilled my speed werx rollers from 24 grams to 19.8 grams. it makes a Huge improvement. Questions is when its fully wound out its around 6000, should i lighten them even more rpms??[/b]
Guess I'm confused now, I installed the smaller rollers only In both the 650H the Tcat. On both with just the smaller rollers the belt rides very high on the secondary, I cannot imagine how it would work with additional shims installed under the gold cover plate on the primary??? belt would ride even higher. Maybe roller diameters have changed? I don't know? I bought 4-25 gram rollers from speedwerx when they first came out. and then modified my remaining stock rollers to be the same diameter as the new ones from speedwerx. I've been mixing and matching rollers to gain an over all lighter weight on the 650 and a touch heavier on the Tcat to improve it's trail manners. I'm pretty happy with my results so far.

Some one on this site said maximum torque is generated at 5600 RPM on the Tcat. Ive got my 650 primary weighted where it pulls hard WOT at around 5900 RPM in high range. I had it weighted for 6200 RPM for a while and it wasnt near as strong on acceleration, So I'm thinking 5900 RPM is close to the point of maximum torque on it??? Seems much better then the stock 5500 RPM it was. Maybe I'm mistaken in my thinking, but I thought it would be better to weight the primary so the RPM under full acceleration matched the point where the engine develops it's maximum torque???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,165 Posts
I know you cant use both shimms and small rollers on a 08 650, shoot just the shims put my belt on the sleave.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,867 Posts
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Here are some pics of when i put the rollers in. pics are speed werxs rollers, stock, difference.[/b]
Yup same size as yours. Guess I just don't understand how you added shims too.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,170 Posts
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wyo_H1_Cat @ Mar 3 2009, 12:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Here are some pics of when i put the rollers in. pics are speed werxs rollers, stock, difference.[/b]
Yup same size as yours. Guess I just don't understand how you added shims too.
[/b][/quote]

You have to remember his is a Suzuki engine which means the clutches are probably different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,867 Posts
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
You have to remember his is a Suzuki engine which means the clutches are probably different.[/b]
That may be the difference, I've only been inside the 650H1 and the Tcat CVT's. I sure wouldn't of thought that they were that different though?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,170 Posts
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wyo_H1_Cat @ Mar 3 2009, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
You have to remember his is a Suzuki engine which means the clutches are probably different.[/b]
That may be the difference, I've only been inside the 650H1 and the Tcat CVT's. I sure wouldn't of thought that they were that different though?
[/b][/quote]

Ive never personally seen in the H1 or H2 Clutches or pictures but im assuming the difference might be a longer spline on the suzuki clutch and maybe more cover room? I mean that's really the only explanation
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,165 Posts
The lenght of the sleave has alot to do with it, the old 650s have a shorter sleave in them so you could use the rollers and shims but the newer ones have a longer sleave which wont allow the use of both things and the Suz could be the same way.
i think the old 650 the sleave in it was 3/16" of a inch shorter then mine. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
Wouldn't the drilled stock rollers allow engagement of the clutch at a lower rpm? If so wouldn't that work against the machine and larger tires?

Should you only drill the stock rollers if the primary is going to be shimmed as well?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,165 Posts
The only way to change engagemnet is to change the Wet springs to a stiffer set.
the roller control have fast the clutch up shifts, BUT they also control how many rpms the motor wil turn when fully upshifted, a heavy roller wont allow the motor to run in its peak power band and to light of a roller will do the same you have to find the right weight for your motor. 19grams to 20 grams seesm to be real good for the 650H1s and i have red that 18 grams to 19 grams works real well for the 700efis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,867 Posts
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Wouldn't the drilled stock rollers allow engagement of the clutch at a lower rpm? If so wouldn't that work against the machine and larger tires?

Should you only drill the stock rollers if the primary is going to be shimmed as well?[/b]
Although the weights and design are different, This would be true on the Slip and Grip type CVT's found in Kawasaki, AC-V2, Polaris and any CVT where the primary opens up to let the belt slip on the primary pulley when stopped at an idle. All Arctic Cats with the Duramatic CVT have a positive grip on the belt at all times. The belt doesn't slip. When stopped an internal wet clutch opens up allowing the engine to run at idle and not turn the primary pulley.

You could shim without drilling or drill without shimming. Drilling the weights will raise the RPM of the engine by reducing the rate of up shift. For instance, On my H1 with my tires and altitude, WOT acceleration in high gear my RPM ran about 5500 on the H1, Reducing each of the eight weights 1 gram approximately raised the RPM under acceleration by about 200-250 RPM. 2 grams each will raise it to 5900-6000 RPM. This is where I'm at now. Pulls hard with good acceleration. Cruise RPM will be raised also a little for any steady speed some.

Shimming as I've said above only affects the gearing giving a lower gear of about 5% when first pulling out from a dead stop or going very slow because you have in effect a smaller pulley turning a larger pulley until the front pulley starts squeezing together and the rear pulley starts opening up more.
 
21 - 40 of 56 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top