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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wyo_H1_Cat @ Sep 4 2009, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
..... I should of patented the process and sold kits LOL, instead anyone who does this and loves the result as much as I, you owe me a beer if we ever meet. DEAL????[/b]
It's a deal.

If you make a kit, I will still buy one for my 07 650 H1 TRV. :)

TC
 

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ha any body used machinery busings rather washers? they are a whole lot thiner. a washer is about an 1/8", whereas the bushings are about a 1/16".
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yupneck @ Sep 8 2009, 11:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
ha any body used machinery busings rather washers? they are a whole lot thiner. a washer is about an 1/8", whereas the bushings are about a 1/16".[/b]
Yes I used some when I was developing this mod. I'm still using multiple thin shims on my machines to get the amount caster I was most happy with. Using thinner shims and bushings with a 1/8" flange, I do have the capability to move shims to the front or rear to change caster easily. Applying a little math for calculating the angles of a triangle with one side of the triangle being the center line distance between the ball joints, and the third point being a fixed location on the frame, I calculated the change in caster to be approximately 1/2 degree change for every 1/32 (0.03125) of an inch on my Tcat. This was also confirmed with the actual installation and measurement of caster.

So to put some sense to your question 1/8" washer would change your caster about 2 degrees. A 1/16" washer would change your caster about 1 degree. If you use a Stainless Steel washer, they are usually about 0.095 or 3/32 inches thick and would change your caster about 1-1/2 degrees. What you use and how far you shim would be largely a personal choice. Zero degrees caster would give you the easiest steering but would probably be quite squirrely and maybe even dangerous to ride. Where is the sweet spot? Probably between 2 to 4 degrees caster. If you have a Precision steering stabilizer installed, 2 degrees may be plenty. Personally with my low cost stabilizers i don't think I'd go below 3 degrees caster.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TopCat @ Sep 7 2009, 06:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wyo_H1_Cat @ Sep 4 2009, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
..... I should of patented the process and sold kits LOL, instead anyone who does this and loves the result as much as I, you owe me a beer if we ever meet. DEAL????[/b]
It's a deal.

If you make a kit, I will still buy one for my 07 650 H1 TRV. :)

TC
[/b][/quote]

LOL don't think I'd bother in selling two stock top A-arm bushings and one 69 cent washer for each side. That is all it would take. I did read where Sanny was developing UHMW A-arm bushings a while back, maybe he would be interested in having that option on the replacement bushings he plans on selling???? UHMW poly in my opinion would be superior to the cheap stock rubber ones.
 

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Wyo_H1_Cat

Just finish, Used my Hook spring scale for before and after readings, I used a 1/2"ID washer that was .093.

25lb reduction in steering effort...

Thanks for the GREAT MOD........
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
Kewl 25lbs is a lot when it comes right down to it, Having a hard time wondering how you used a 1/2 inch ID washer though, the inner sleeve is 5/8" OD and the washer would have to fit over the od of the sleeve in order to shin the A-arm forwards unless you cut the sleeve as well????
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wyo_H1_Cat @ Sep 26 2009, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Kewl 25lbs is a lot when it comes right down to it, Having a hard time wondering how you used a 1/2 inch ID washer though, the inner sleeve is 5/8" OD and the washer would have to fit over the od of the sleeve in order to shin the A-arm forwards unless you cut the sleeve as well????[/b]
YES, I cut the inner sleeve also.

Can't take it for a test ride pirmary on it's way to airdam....
 

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Bayoucats,

I am in the process of doing this to mine too. I see your logic but I believe either way will have the same end result. The 5/8" washer behind the back bushing will move the A-arm foward on the sleeve just as your way will move the whole assy. foward. I personally am using a 5/8" washer on mine though.


Steve
 

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I needed Photo's LOL



Mark Amount Of Bushing That Needs To Come Off...
[attachment=134864:pICT0023.JPG]

Knock Inner Sleeve Back So NOT To Grind It...
[attachment=134868:pICT0025.JPG]
Sand or Grind the Front Rubber Bushing the Amount Of The Washer You Are Using...
NOTE: I Used A Plam Sander with 60 Grit Paper....



After You Sand The Amount Off Front Rubber Bushing, Tap Inner Sleeve Back Flush To Front Rubber Bushing...
[attachment=134871:pICT0023A.jpg]


Place Washer Over Inner Sleeve Sticking Out In Rear...
[attachment=134870:pICT0022.JPG]
[attachment=134867:pICT0021.JPG]



This IS What It Will Look Like In The Upper A-Arm...
REAR With Washer Over Inner Sleeve //FRONT Sanded Down
[attachment=134869:pICT0028.JPG]


This Will Let You Slide The A-Arm Forward The Amount You Took Off...
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (4x4FF @ Sep 27 2009, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Bayoucats,

I am in the process of doing this to mine too. I see your logic but I believe either way will have the same end result. The 5/8" washer behind the back bushing will move the A-arm foward on the sleeve just as your way will move the whole assy. foward. I personally am using a 5/8" washer on mine though.


Steve[/b]

Yes you are correct,

Was trying to do to many things at one time, Now being able to do anything for the past 2 months knee surgery. Cat happy
This Mod, Pulling my Primary to send to Airdam, Battery Dead, Tires Flat, LOL Cool Weather around the corner...
Just a few more dollars to Country Cat for replacement parts... Rockerdude
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
The pictures in post #71 look correct with the washer OVER the inner metal sleeve and the metal sleeve remaining original length. Thank you for posting them. Really shows just how easy this mod is done. The Last picture being the Key photo, A view of the Right Side top A-Arm bushing assembly less the A-arm and Bolt & frame tabs. Installed with the washer(s) nearest the rear of the ATV on each side. The two drawings in post #6 would represent a top view of the Left side A-arm once all assembled and a Cut-away and labeling of all the parts involved.

The inner sleeve is pinched rigid and held tight between the tabs on the frame so the inner sleeve will not rotate on the bolt and perhaps wear the bolt out to the point of breakage or wear against the frame tabs with suspension movement. Even without significant wear, the inner sleeve moving against the bolt or moving against the frame tabs could squeak like a mouse on steroids.

The point of rotation or suspension movement should be only on the inner out outer diameters of bushings themselves. I would NOT shorten the inner metal sleeve to provide necessary clearance to use smaller ID washers in my opinion for the reason above.

When all done shimming. Recheck and reset toe-in if required. I set mine for -1/8 inch toed in. Factory specs are for 0 to -1/4 inch toe-in I believe.

Drilling and tapping the center of the A-arms for installation of Grease zerks (see my pictures) maybe be a good idea as well. Even when using the stock rubber bushings to help prevent rapid wear with a shot of grease once in a while. I felt zerks would be a requirement for the Bronze bushings i used and may be optional with stock rubber bushings or bushings made from other materials. I believe Sanny is about to release replacement A-Arm bushings made from UHMW poly which should be an improvement as well.

Anyone tried this on a Prowler yet? No reason why it wouldn't work on them also I would think.
 

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Wyo_H1_Cat

Thanks for all the help, I'm going to do it the correct way,
The photo's are from complete extra set of bushings and inner sleeve I have. Had to replace mine in the begining of the year and order both sides after the first one I want to pull apart. Bolt would not come out of inner sleeve and had to beat it out with a hammer.
 

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Wyo_H1_Cat

Thanks again for all the help...

Re-did the Mod to your specs, just to be on the safe side and be able to adjust back or add more if needed....

Little FYI...

My Old Neighbor owns a ACE Hardware...
Showed him what I wanted to do. Went to the 9/16" Steel flat washers, he said that when they punch the holes some are larger than others, but the thickness are the same.

Sure enought, found a bunch that fit right on the inner sleeve and was right at .095 thick....
 

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16mm washers are the same size inside and outside as the bushings, ace has them and they work great. did you have to drill the 9/16 to 5/8 or did you just find the big ones?

i had a few people ask about prowlers wyo, but none have reported back if it worked or not.
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Indiana Mudcat @ Oct 4 2009, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
14mm washers are the same size inside and outside as the bushings, ace has them and they work great. did you have to drill the 9/16 to 5/8 or did you just find the big ones?

i had a few people ask about prowlers wyo, but none have reported back if it worked or not.[/b]

I just grab a few of the 9/16" and tried them on the inner sleeve and check the thickness with the dial capiler... No Drilling Needed...

How Thick was the 14mm ones????
 

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i'm sorry there 16mm not 14mm, i had to go back to my old thread to check to see how thick they were and caught it. they're 3mm thick, on the lowers i used 5/8's ss that were 2mm thick cause i had that much slop there. the 5/8's ss were to big on outside to clear the mount without cutting so i used the metric there.

how i did it
 

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I did both of our 07 700's and they both steer easier. The 09 700 still steers even easier though.
But this mod closed the gap between the two models.
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tiggershark @ Oct 19 2009, 04:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I did both of our 07 700's and they both steer easier. The 09 700 still steers even easier though.
But this mod closed the gap between the two models.[/b]
Does the 09 still have stock wheels? According to the Arctic Cat site where they listed the changes for 2009, wheel offset to reduce scrub radius was one of the things they listed. It would be interesting to see is your 2007 steered as easy as the 2009 if it had the 2009 wheels and tires on it. Or just wondering if there is other changes we don't know about YET.
 

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they changed the handlebar bend around that time for easier steering also.
 

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09 has stock aluminum wheels, one 07 has stock steel wheels (painted black) and the other 07 has ITP ss108's.
The handle bars are different for sure, they are lower by about 2 inches.
I'll switch wheels around in the future and measure the width of each and the steering difference.
 
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