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Discussion Starter #1
Well guys I'm getting ready to be Catless. I bought my 2008 AC 650 H1 TRV 4X4 last June 2018 from a Suzuki/Kawasaki dealership. It was a trade in on a new SXS or ATV. I paid a out the door cash price and the salesman supplied me with a bill of sale and a Certificate of Origin since it was a out of state bought new originally. I was familiar with out of state Certificate of Origin paperwork since I'd bought a Honda Foreman 450 4x4 before from a individual and had no problem getting a Texas title for it.

Apparently this is not the case when purchasing from a dealership here in Texas and the dealership I bought my AC from knows they screwed up now. I got a phone call this morning from the salesman at the dealership from where I bought the AC. What's happened is the original owner never put the AC 650 in his name and he even lives in a different state then where he bought the ATV new.

The salesman that contacted me this morning explain to me the hassle that it's going to take to get me a clear Texas title for the AC 650 and was wanting to know if I wanted to pursue that or they would just buy back the AC 650. He told me I have no idea how long it will take to even get you a Texas title because every thing has to revert back to the original owner and he said upon his good faith of wanting to work getting it straightened out. I'm sure there are going to be some taxes involved for the original owner to straighten out this mess, and he does not know if the original owner will do that or not. The dealership may have to eat the cost.

Salesman said by us buying it back from you you are free and clear so to speak. In Texas ATV/SXS have a title issued and if you are stopped by a state trooper while transporting the ATV it's your responsibility to show proof of ownership of said machine. If you only show a bill of sale the trooper can deny that and say anyone can make up a bill of sale. They want a title as proof with VIN #, they have the right option to confiscate your machine until you can absolutely prove it belongs to you.

That means said machine could set outdoors in a impound yard for what ever length of time it takes. I'm not willing to chance that and I told the salesman I'll do the buy back. He apologized several times and said this is the first time he's experienced this much trouble with a Certificate of Origin.

I told him it would probably be toward the end of the week or possibly next week before I could get the ATV back to them.

Tony
 

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Wow..

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Wow..

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Ha,ha, yeah reminds me of what a mechanic buddy says to me at times, "it could only happen to you". :grin

My wife got a little upset and said Wa! the heck (not the word she used) what am I going to do now, the Suzuki Eiger 400 is only for one rider. The AC is a 2 up and love riding with you, I said don't worry there is always another one down the road for sale lol.

Tony
 

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Bummer deal. Not really anything you could have done. Strict rules down there. Probably a good thing when you look at the big picture. A lot harder to transport a stolen unit. Do you have a lot of ATV theft in the area?
 

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Bummer deal. Not really anything you could have done. Strict rules down there. Probably a good thing when you look at the big picture. A lot harder to transport a stolen unit. Do you have a lot of ATV theft in the area?
Not that really I'm aware of as far as ATV theft, but I really don't keep up with that. You also have to have a title issued on a outboard motor in Texas, so when you buy a boat and motor combo each has it's own separate title.

I had been putting off getting a title on the AC since I bought it last summer. 99% of the time it stay's on my property,but we had started transporting it 30 miles away to my in-laws property to go riding. After doing a little research I figured it would be in my best interest to get it titled in my name if so I happened to get stopped by a Texas state trooper and prove it was mine. That's what generated all this mess to date and I'm glad now for that, that I didn't get stopped and the ATV confiscated.

I don't believe it's stolen at all, I just believe the original owner failed to put it in his name in his state to maybe avoid paying registration taxes, that's just a guess though. That's why the salesman told me this may end up being a long drawn out deal getting you a clear Texas title. Best option in this case is do the buy back, no headache then for me.

Tony
 

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its funny how every state has its own rules on registering things or not, and I agree,m odds are the original owner was trying to avoid paying tax on the machine, something a LOT of folks do, when they ONLY use the atv on there own lands, or places NO one cares if its insured(as most places it needs to be registered to be insured or taxes paid anymore)

I once bought a new truck, about a month later dealer contacted me, NEEDING me to come back to dealership , due to the filled out all the wrong papwerwork on truck, they gave me one truck and filled out paperwork on a truck they still had on lot, and was end of yr thing and screwing up there tax records, not to mention illegal sale!

SO, I used that to get some free things?
as I didn;t live close to dealer, and was going to take a full day of my time up to fix there screw up
they gave me a 200 bucks in cash, free seat covers(matched the truck) a new aluminum spare wheel(was a Ford Bronco, so got a upgraded spare to match the other 4) and a couple free oil changes, for my trouble's
SO< overall, it worked out well for me
and I am guessing, if there willing to buy it back, its also got some legal issue's for them, too
so never hurts to ask to see what they can give you for your troubles and time>?
 

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WOW, didn't even know ATV's have titles! Never had a title for any of mine. Come and take my Cats from my cold dead hands! Once you get my guns away from me, after I run out of ammo, which will take a while.... And I thought Texas was cool.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
WOW, didn't even know ATV's have titles! Never had a title for any of mine. Come and take my Cats from my cold dead hands! Once you get my guns away from me, after I run out of ammo, which will take a while.... And I thought Texas was cool.
Ha,ha, Gus you got it all wrong,Texas is a pretty cool state almost like it's, it's own country with all the different regions. Kind of funny when you talk to Texans and they say well I'm from North Texas or I'm from South Texas, or I'm from the Panhandle, etc,etc At least we do not have a state income tax. I would bet though each state has all things figured out on how to benefit revenue for themselves.

Go into a place that sells guns here in Texas,you pass the background test,you walk out with gun in hand right then. :grin

Tony
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
I just got off the phone with the salesman that I bought the AC 650 from. I told him I'd be heading his way Friday morning to do the buy back on the ATV. I told him that I also wanted to be compensated for service and delivery back to them, it's a 2 hr trip one way. At first he started to baulk about the maintenance service that I did already, saying "well service was already preformed on that ATV before you bought it". I said I have no way of knowing that because you said nothing about that or supplied no receipts. Then he said ok.

Anyway he agreed to my figure's of the buy back money I paid plus the service I did,plus compensating me for my fuel of a round trip delivery charge back to them. I ask him what are you going to do with the ATV ? He said put it back up for sale with no warranty,no title. I said you can legally sell it without a title,he said yes someone like a rancher/farmer or whatever will buy it to just keep on their property. I said ok it's yours.

Tony
 

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This whole thing keeps me thinking.
Seems like the dealer is being pretty good given all the details.
I had no idea how the system works in Texas. If the dealer can sell with or without title, that means they have an extra process to verify with the consumer. Sounds like they missed that step in your case. It can be a costly miss if they are truly going to cover all the incidental expenses. I go through quite a few purchase and/or service transactions. I've never had transportation of any kind covered. I've also been on the hook for any normal service that was performed. Granted, I deal mostly with sleds, so maybe the market is different.


If I understand correctly, you get almost a year of use with little or no expense? Seems like a decent deal. Maybe I'm missing something?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
This whole thing keeps me thinking.
Seems like the dealer is being pretty good given all the details.
I had no idea how the system works in Texas. If the dealer can sell with or without title, that means they have an extra process to verify with the consumer. Sounds like they missed that step in your case. It can be a costly miss if they are truly going to cover all the incidental expenses. I go through quite a few purchase and/or service transactions. I've never had transportation of any kind covered. I've also been on the hook for any normal service that was performed. Granted, I deal mostly with sleds, so maybe the market is different.


If I understand correctly, you get almost a year of use with little or no expense? Seems like a decent deal. Maybe I'm missing something?
I made the delivery of the AC 650 yesterday and all went fine as far as getting all my money back plus. This was clearly a unusual circumstance for the dealership and me. When I got there I went inside and greeted the salesman, I said the bikes out on the trailer. We went outside and he helped me un-strap it and then asked for the key. He fired it up and pulled it around the side of the building into the shop and then came back to me at my trailer, he said let's go inside and I'll get you your money. I paid them in cash when I bought the ATV and that's what he paid me back plus extra for the maintenance I did on it.

After he gave me the cash he opened up just a little more on what he found out about this situation. The original owner had bought it new in the state of Oklahoma but he lived in Arkansas. He had a loan on the ATV that he stopped paying on and sold the ATV to some individual that then found out they could not get a title then they sold it to another individual that ended up trading it in to the dealership where I bought it from. The ATV had a lien against it from the original owner that stopped making payments on it and sold it making it technically stolen. I'm assuming there is a credit company bank,credit union,etc holding onto the title as I speak somewhere, IDK.

The dealership found all this out last week and that's when he the salesman called me and said we got a problem with this ATV title and he offered to buy back the ATV.

Tony
 

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Discussion Starter #13
This dealership needs high praise. I hope that you gave the funds back and purchased a legitimate machine form them. Good luck and it is good to see that there was an amicable outcome.
Dealership doing the right thing I totally agree with that. This was a Suzuki/Kawasaki dealership. The Arctic Cat 650 just happened to be a trade in that I'd bought from them. So no I have no plans of purchasing a legitimate machine from them since Suzuki/Kawasaki does not offer a TRV or 2 up model ATV. Unless they come up with something I'm interested in as far as trade in goes and I haven't bought something else already.

The dealership could have tried to blow me off if they wanted too I guess, but it would have not been very smart to do that, and they being a several year in business with a good reputation I don't believe they would of thought about that in this particular situation. They recognized they screwed up on the AC trade in and really the Certificate of Origin paperwork looked fine to them as it did to me also at the time I purchased it.

Looking back that is one thing that really bamfuzzle's me is that Certificate of Origin that is a official document staying with the original owner especially since he had a loan on that bike to start with. Each state does things differently and maybe the credit union,bank,or whatever had their own paperwork and did not need that Certificate of Origin for some reason at the time of the loan from the original owner IDK.

I don't blame the dealership one bit because it all looked totally legit to them and to me when I purchased the ATV. Only when the dealership dug a little deeper into it trying to get me a Texas title they found out this ATV has a big problem, and the easy solution for them is to do a buy back.

I didn't charge them for any of my labor time spent or any of that because I kind like working and doing the ATV maintenance stuff myself. I guess I could have been A- hole and charged them every penny I could think of, but I didn't because I'm not wired that way.:grin

I had added some extra stuff to the bike that I had to remove also before I took it back to them,again I could have been real hardcore with them and forced legal action saying your going to pay me for my time,this,that,whatever and made a great big deal out of it because of their mistake,again I'm not wired that way.

I have bought,sold, and traded most of my adult life and 99% of the time the transactions go well. I guess crap happens at times and everybody makes mistakes. I'm cool with it.:smile

Tony
 

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odds are again they NEEDED the bike back, for tax reasons, as selling a stolen item can bite them in the butt, if , say you took legal actions, as legally a stolen ATV, can be taken away by the LAW side of things and you'd be out $$> then you would turn around and SUE them for your loss, for selling you a stolen ATV.
there sales dept, should have done a background check on the VIN< of said ATV< and apparently they forgot to do so!.
SO< I doubt they were buying it back to JUST be nice, they had legal worries too, that forced there hand to get it back!
Still nice they did so, and didn;t make a big fuss about your, time, and PM"s and such, as they could have, but again, they had legal worries, that going to court would cost them way more than the buy back would, even with your add on costs!

if there is a lien/note on this atv, it HAS to be paid off before they can legally sell this atv to anyone, title or not, its owned by who ever has the note on it, so, selling other wise would be selling a stolen ATV .

telling a buyer this in advance, doesn't change the fact its owned by the bank/note owner, and they need to get paid, in full before it can legally be owned by anyone else!


this is one of the reason many states require titles and titles to be transferred at time of sale, on vehicles(ATV"s included)
as at time of transfer its known to be stolen or NOT then, and saves a buyer from having larger issues that can happen, if a buyer BUYS a stolen atv off anyone, they have proof it cane ==me from a legal sale, and ALL taxes are paid up on vehicle too, not sticking anyone with a added bill!
many don't like titles, as its added steps and some costs, but , it sure gives more peace of mind to things!
BUY a stolen ATV off a "X" person, and cannot prove you did, and atv is found to be stolen, you loose ATV and ALL your money you paid>
getting stung once, will make you appreciate a state that requires title transfer real fast LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ha,ha look what popped-up on craigslist, my ole 08 AC 650. I wonder if that dealership ever got the title situation straightened out? As far as I know it's in good condition if anyone is looking for a machine in North Texas area if it's got a clear title now,lol.

That one pic showing the pod with the mileage of 379 and the ignition switch I can verify that because that new switch I installed myself and when I bought it over a year ago it had 330 miles showing the day I picked it up. As dusty as it is in their pics they must have just had it sitting around. Never thought I'd see that ATV again.

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/snd/d/paris-artic-cat-650-two-passenger-650/6937543045.html

Tony
 

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Good eye!
 
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