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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok i am new to the snowmobile engines thing but i am good with engines in general, this one has me stumped though. I am an ASE mastertech in the automotive field so i have a good understanding of how everything is working.

I Bought the 1979 Pantera with the spirit 5000 a few days ago for $300 and the guy reved it up for me so i thought it runs, i can take it from there. When i got it home i started it and the first time that i hit the throttle it look off like crazy, but as soon as i let it go back to an idle and hit it again it would bogg, cant even go above 15mph. Then if i let it come to a idle it dies and is imposible to start. If i shut it off for about ten minutes and then go back and try again it runs great for the first full throttle then dies again.

First step i took is new gas, ... No different

Then i cleaned the carb and adjusted, if i went too lean it would backfire, too rich and it would eventually flood when i let out of the throttle. I adjusted idle screw, air screw on air cleaner side of carb, float level and i noticed that it ran a little better lean but i still have the same problem.

The next step i took was to eliminate all of the electronics on the sled, i disconected all switches, hand warmers and jumped brown and black wire from stator...... still the same problem.

I also got a brand new coil and threw it on just for kicks because a local store had one for 30 bucks.

I will be bringing spark and compression testers home from work tomorow to test it out but i was wondering if there was anything else that i could look for or any ideas you guys have.

One thing is that there is no battery in the sled, i dont think this should make a difference but what do you guys think?
 

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my theory is...if your chasing your tail on these old engine...crankseals. compression test won't tell you if you have a leaking engine. You need to do a leakdown test. which means making plates and a tester and removing the exhaust and intake and sealing the engine then pressurizing the engine and timing the leak down.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
I was thinking the same thing, the only things that makes me think it is not that is that it is more based on the rpm going high then low not how long the motor is runing
 

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I have been doing these old cat engines, mostly kawi's for years now and always try to talk myself out of a major rebuild. 9 times out of 10 I find they run great after inspecting everything and replacing what I can. 9 times out of 10 I find something I didnt expect! Its all hit and miss dude. you may have a bad intake boot. The guy before you may not have aligned the cylinders when he rebuild it or fudged up the crankcase mating surfaces. I did, using a diegrinder and roloc scotchbrite disc. Melted a good 440 down in minutes! Point is (IMO)they need gone thru. Good luck.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
I was reading manual and it says use oil mixed gas, i thought oil injection system took care of that, could this be my problem?
 

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thats a 1978 manual and you have an 80 panther correct? Panthers didnt have oil inj in 78. The 78 manual will be very close to your 80 cat, but maybe not everything...LOL.
 

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Hey, I'm new to the forum here and saw your post. Just last weekend, I began working on an '81 El Tigre 6000 that my sister-in-law gave me and it was doing the same thing. Only difference was, I had a white plug on the left cylinder and a wet one on the right. I pulled the left carb and had dirt in the pilot jet. After putting her back together, it still didn't want to idle, didn't run strong, and backfired at higher rpm. It wanted to bog alot and I really had to work the throttle. I checked the plugs again, and the left one was now a nice tan, but the right was still wet. Upon further inspection, I had found built up cabon deposits up inside the plug between the porcelin and steel body of the plug. I put a new plug in and bam, runs like a striped a$$ ape. Like they say, sometimes the simplest and most obvious can be the culpret. Hope this helps a little.
 

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Hey, I'm new to the forum here and saw your post. Just last weekend, I began working on an '81 El Tigre 6000 that my sister-in-law gave me and it was doing the same thing. Only difference was, I had a white plug on the left cylinder and a wet one on the right. I pulled the left carb and had dirt in the pilot jet. After putting her back together, it still didn't want to idle, didn't run strong, and backfired at higher rpm. It wanted to bog alot and I really had to work the throttle. I checked the plugs again, and the left one was now a nice tan, but the right was still wet. Upon further inspection, I had found built up cabon deposits up inside the plug between the porcelin and steel body of the plug. I put a new plug in and bam, runs like a striped a$$ ape. Like they say, sometimes the simplest and most obvious can be the culpret. Hope this helps a little.
YUP....once in awhile you get lucky. All I am sayn is if you keep tryn things and nuthns workn...time to tear down.
 

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One of the biggest things I see is when people clean the carb, they miss things. Look threw each jet, use a small piece of wire if you have to. Blow compressed air threw each passage way. Check theat the float is really shuting of flow.
When you have gone through that twice, then I would start looking at seals and other things, as said above look for possible leaks in boots or gaskets. Carefully spay either around areas and listen for ROM to pick up
 

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A typical problem with these engines is not in the engine itself, but in the throttle block. It is the TSS (throttle safety switch) that is acting up. You can bypass this completely.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I am still having the problem, but i decided that i wanted to pull the engine apart because of the stator wires were giving me off reistances and the thing started to lose spark. WHen i took it apart there was a lot of rust in the stator but it all looked fine, waiting on a new clutch to show up and well throw it back in and see if that fixed her.
 

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bump? 1976 cheetah with a twin motor that says spirit on the top. new fuel fuel pumps working not an arctic cat fuel pump the one i got with it doesnt work i put one off an old honda scooter that works great. i never got an air box but i put a pod filter off the carb and it makes it run worse. it runs great when its cold as soon as it warms up it just bogs and barely moves.. let it idle for a few mins and ill get a 15 second shot of power then it bogs to no end. im thinking crank seals... dont wanna do a hole motor job unless i can do it myself. ive done motorcycle motors but only the top end ive never slip the cases on one due to being scared of not getting the trans back together but i dont have to worry about that with a sled motor. i know theres a wet spot under the intake manifold on the motor... gonna check that out and if there isnt a problem there then i guess im splitting it. any guides or anything to help me split it? thanks guys!!
 

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Sorry, this thread is old, but if there is a thread that my question fits into more just tell me that thread. but, I have an 80 Pantera that the motor was completely rebuilt about 10 years ago but nobody could get it running before the sled was given to me. So I essentially have a brand new motor in it. But it would just cough and sputter if you pulled it forwards but it caught itself one night and ran backwards. It would try to rip your arm off every time you pulled it and it finally broke the rope. So I took the section of rope and wound it backwards on the cup that the recoil starter engages on and it starts first pull and runs like a top! Just backwards. But every one in a while when you rev it up when you let off the throttle it will act like you hit the kill switch until you tap the gas again and it catches itself. (Braaap kill Braaaap, winds down normally Braaap kill Braap kill) its intermittent, does my interpretation make any sense? But anyway, it doesn't move because the clutch won't engage fully since its running backwards which is my guess. so does anybody have an idea as to why it does this? if looked it up and some people replace the whole stator and that fixes it. would it be just wired wrong? Please help.
 

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Any 2stroke could run backwards. It's just because of the 2 stroke principals of operation. In your case though I'd bet that the timing is wrong. You'll need to check it via a service manual for static timing and then running timing (advance). A 1980 could be pre CDI box ignition but my 1980 Blizzard has CDI so yours might too. A lot of stator plates were adjustable back then. Maybe when it was rebuilt that moved on yours. Unknown as a guess so you'll have to figure it out.

Steve
 

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Thats most likely what it is the timing. Too much advance on the low end. If your idle is too low or you get a backfire will stop and run backwards. You have the wrong CDI combined with the static on the stator is too much. Or you have an aftermarket ignition coil that has big hold down holes and not built perfect making you advanced before even rotating the stator plate. Pull your flywheel and rotate the stator to the left one line. Then see if it will run good enough to get a light on it. Confirm if you can read the numbers on the CDI that its the right one
 

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Since I don know how to edit rotate the stator to the right moving the line to the left to be better clear
720, FYI, just click the 3 little dots straight across from your post # to edit. I have to do it all the time. Lol (y)
 

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I ended up figureing out what happened. Somebody puto too thin of a flywheel keyway and it sheared, put a key that fit the slot and it started first pull the right way! Thank you all for the input on this!



Nathan
 
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