I don't believe that was the real problem.. sounds like a strange cover up to me

 

Yeah, it's bizzar, but all the electrical components were cool along with the clutches etc. I had a similar problem with my 05 f7 carb but it went away after I changed my oil pump settings. When crusing at high speeds the throtle response was there but when playing on hills or low speed crusing the sled would seem to load up and stumble before revving when going from a low throttle to full throtle situation. Again this problem(on my f7) seems to have been fixed with an oil pump adjustment but my 05 f6 efi ran great out of the box. Any similar experiences? For what its worth I seem to have good luck with Amsoil interceptor but we could go around For hours about that. Thanks for your imput

 

I have never heard of a sled running poorly due to blue marbel.

I have heard of engines burning down due to lack of oil protection while running BM.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scrat600 @ Mar 19 2007, 03:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I have heard of engines burning down due to lack of oil protection while running BM.[/b]

From the first time the local rep showed me a few ''non pre-washed'' prior to showing (just pulled and put into plastic bags) engine components after running it for a season himself, I made it a vow to never recommend it to even my worst enemy as it left no lubricating film what so ever ANYWHERE on the parts, the polaris 800 power valves were solid blue from heat with no oily feel either, 'nuff to convince me,,

 

5000+ trouble free miles on Blue Marble with oil pump turned down into the neighbourhood of a 70/1 ratio. And that's hauling my 285+ pound carcas every inch of the way.

No undiagnosed mis-fires.
No blue parts.
No mysterious film.

Just...Cat happy

 

Almost 7000 plus miles on myZR800 using only Blue Marble without even
hiccup.

I too agree that it sounds weird that changing the brand of oil would cure
a bogging issue.

nutkick :TA

 

4600 mi. plus, I've been on it since day one with 800 cross country. Valves cleaned approx. every 1000 to 1500 mi. and never needed to do more then wipe off with rag. Never a problem with anything. Started my F8 on it now. Only 250 miles so far on it but fully expect the same protection level I've been witnessing so far. Getting the new F8 to shift totally out is more of a concern with me now.......but thats another topic!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MUSKOKA800 @ Mar 19 2007, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

5000+ trouble free miles on Blue Marble with oil pump turned down into the neighbourhood of a 70/1 ratio. And that's hauling my 285+ pound carcas every inch of the way.

No undiagnosed mis-fires.
No blue parts.
No mysterious film.

Just...Cat happy[/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skippy440 @ Mar 19 2007, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Almost 7000 plus miles on myZR800 using only Blue Marble without even
hiccup.

I too agree that it sounds weird that changing the brand of oil would cure
a bogging issue.

nutkick :TA[/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CCfuelly @ Mar 19 2007, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

4600 mi. plus, I've been on it since day one with 800 cross country. Valves cleaned approx. every 1000 to 1500 mi. and never needed to do more then wipe off with rag. Never a problem with anything. Started my F8 on it now. Only 250 miles so far on it but fully expect the same protection level I've been witnessing so far. Getting the new F8 to shift totally out is more of a concern with me now.......but thats another topic![/b]

Not trying to be a wise A$$, but may the force be with you all, my observations and his responses said ''stay away'' << JMHO

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MUSKOKA800 @ Mar 19 2007, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

No mysterious film.[/b]

Normally you want a film left on your parts, thats a good thing from a good oil. If you don't have that it's NOT good and thats what C-Note was saying. He wasn't saying there was a mysterious film, sounded like there was none or it was insufficient.... and I would drop that brand of oil too then.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jeff H @ Mar 20 2007, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Normally you want a film left on your parts, thats a good thing from a good oil. If you don't have that it's NOT good and thats what C-Note was saying. He wasn't saying there was a mysterious film, sounded like there was none or it was insufficient.... and I would drop that brand of oil too then.[/b]

Thank you Jeff,, that is exactly what I was saying, ''no film'' for layer of protection, no good

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C-note @ Mar 20 2007, 07:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jeff H @ Mar 20 2007, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Normally you want a film left on your parts, thats a good thing from a good oil. If you don't have that it's NOT good and thats what C-Note was saying. He wasn't saying there was a mysterious film, sounded like there was none or it was insufficient.... and I would drop that brand of oil too then.[/b]

Thank you Jeff,, that is exactly what I was saying, ''no film'' for layer of protection, no good
[/b][/quote]


Sorry my mis-read on the film or non-film condition.
Still, I stand by my engines excellent condition and will continue my use of Blue Marble.

Just remember that before you form an extreme opinion about a product that sledders as a whole are very brand oriented whether it be sled brand or injection oil.
Some bad-mouth BM while others, like myself and others posting here have found it top-shelf. Have the haters used it long term??? Did they pay the extra cash to try it or did they turn there backs on it and bad mouth it without justification just because it's not Brand X, their favorite (and likely less expensive at the time) lube? I think the second scenario is more likely.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MUSKOKA800 @ Mar 20 2007, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C-note @ Mar 20 2007, 07:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jeff H @ Mar 20 2007, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Normally you want a film left on your parts, thats a good thing from a good oil. If you don't have that it's NOT good and thats what C-Note was saying. He wasn't saying there was a mysterious film, sounded like there was none or it was insufficient.... and I would drop that brand of oil too then.[/b]

Thank you Jeff,, that is exactly what I was saying, ''no film'' for layer of protection, no good
[/b][/quote]


Sorry my mis-read on the film or non-film condition.
Still, I stand by my engines excellent condition and will continue my use of Blue Marble.

Just remember that before you form an extreme opinion about a product that sledders as a whole are very brand oriented whether it be sled brand or injection oil.
Some bad-mouth BM while others, like myself and others posting here have found it top-shelf. Have the haters used it long term??? Did they pay the extra cash to try it or did they turn there backs on it and bad mouth it without justification just because it's not Brand X, their favorite (and likely less expensive at the time) lube? I think the second scenario is more likely.
[/b][/quote]

I think you may have touched on a potential reason why people are reluctant to switch.

I've been using Shell Ultra Advance synthetic for a long time now, mainly because Klotz prices went through the roof. I've also managed many thousands of miles without any problems with the Shell oil.

So although I'm not oil-brand-religious, I also don't see the need to spend more money and not get more.

Maybe I'm more loyal to not spending more money than I have to? Maybe this is one of the reasons people are reluctant to switch?

I'm not saying BM is bad or good. I don't know. But I don't see the benefit of paying more just to find out it's just another oil.

Just my take on the situation. Sledding is expensive enough. There's a lot of good oils out there that don't cost an arm and a leg.

Normally, all oils on the market are not going to be bad oil. You just don't hear a lot of bad-oil engine failures out there. BM falls into question on this issue only because it is not a conventional formulation.

Either way, if it wasn't more expensive BM might be used by a lot more people who are willing to try it.

If there were thousands more using it, and if it really was bad oil, then the truth would become common knowledge. BM would either have to be 'fixed' or die off in the markets. If it was good oil, as good as any and priced equally, then it will flourish. If it truly is better than all others, it would end up the most purchased oil on the market after a while.

 

I have used BM oil for 3 years and love it.
Pulled my M7 motor down last summer after 2 very hard and abusive riding season on it complete with it having ingested a lot of large NOS shots all winter.
It was like new.
I did put new rings and gaskets in it as it was apart already...but damn i was more than impressed with how it looked for wear inside.
The foremost sled mechanic i know, runs it exclusively in his own sleds, as he has pulled apart more motors than i would ever even dream about....and he said the BM engines always show the best for wear, and seem to never ever have an oil related failure.
This season I am running the new M1000 on amsoil only, and the others still on BM, and this summer want to see what they look like inside compared to each other....call it my own experiment if you will.
And the oily film crap you hoped to see all over is what makes rings and APV valves stick.
I prefer them not to stick on my sleds....but that is just me....if you like yours all gummed up and stuck, hey its your sled....I refuse to ever run that crap oil cat sells....had to clean my APV valves constantly it seemed as it built up so much crap on them.
I had to wire wheel them to get them clean all the time.
Now using BM oil, I can pull them out in the summer, and just wipe them clean with a little brake cleaner and a rag....and put them back in.
Damn I love the stuff.
:beer_cheers:

 

AG,
Funny you should mention Klotz.
I was using Klotz as well. But once it's price sky-rocketted (2001-2002) and local dealers began dropping it I made the switch to Blue Marble. BM was still more costly than the 2002 formulations of Amsoil etc. but less than Klotz. Of course now, many others match or exceed my cost of BM. One exception being Shell which can be had at a very competitive price but only when CTC runs their annual sale.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MUSKOKA800 @ Mar 20 2007, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Just remember that before you form an extreme opinion about a product that sledders as a whole are very brand oriented whether it be sled brand or injection oil.
Some bad-mouth BM while others, like myself and others posting here have found it top-shelf. Have the haters used it long term??? Did they pay the extra cash to try it or did they turn there backs on it and bad mouth it without justification just because it's not Brand X, their favorite (and likely less expensive at the time) lube? I think the second scenario is more likely.[/b]

I'm surely not brand loyal, hell I ran polaris VESII in my '03 f5's after I seen what it put up with in a customers '03 pro-x 600 where I worked at in the past,, call that brand loyalty??

As i've see differences in protection factors and their levels of resistance to scuffage as well as wear, along with cleanest burning and least amt of valve carbon deposits, i've made the switches,, when I seen those polaris parts with ABSOLUTELY NO OIL TRACES ON OR UNDER (THE DOMES BOTTOMS), I made my choice then and there to ask the rep if those particular parts had been washed/rinsed off at all, to which he said ''NO'',, the bluing on the whole flat ''blade'' portion of the valve was enough to tell me that those had gotten extremely hot to do so, which is just one more thing good oils do, they help keep parts cool along with the fuel ratios necessary to accomplish this feat, now does that sound ''jumpy'' as far as forming opinions?? after all, 24+ yrs as a tech in the powersports industry has allowed me to see a whole array of oils and their pros and cons

EDIT: it may very well work in a sled that's not a high revving application and ridden easier, but let's see it last in a sled/bike that's ''put to the test'' (rpm/load wise AKA: long endurance racers), I feel safe to say, the BM machine would have substantially more wear than the other oils out there in MOST cases

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MUSKOKA800 @ Mar 20 2007, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

AG,
Funny you should mention Klotz.
I was using Klotz as well. But once it's price sky-rocketted (2001-2002) and local dealers began dropping it I made the switch to Blue Marble. BM was still more costly than the 2002 formulations of Amsoil etc. but less than Klotz. Of course now, many others match or exceed my cost of BM. One exception being Shell which can be had at a very competitive price but only when CTC runs their annual sale.[/b]

Yeah, same reason(s) I stopped using Klotz.

I researched BM back then because I was looking for something to replace the Klotz... But ended up with the Shell Ultra Advance stuff for a lot less money. I only buy it when CT has their yearly sale, so the price is right! Also, the new BM forumulation was unknown at the time. So I went with a sure bet.

And ya know what? I've also had no engine failures caused by oil problems. That was over 9000 miles ago! Shell oil has not given me a reason to switch oil brands.

So... If BM is good or bad for engines is one debate, fine. But it's a debate I'll stay out of because there's nothing wrong with using a good oil priced low that also doesn't cause motor destruction for many thousands of miles.

People will say BM has been in their motors X,000 miles with no problem. But let's all remember, the same can be said for other oils too. So the statement cannot imply it is better, only that it didn't cause an oil-related engine problem.

IMO, oil is a consumable... It's a recurring cost like fuel... It's something you have to buy, for a very long time.

So just like paying the water, cable, hydro, gas card bills... Injector oil is a long term cost because it is a consumable product. So... If I can buy injector oil that is as good as any, for half the price, why not?

Over time, spending less for something that does the job fine will do me more good in the long run than spending double the cash on an oil that isn't twice as good.

Not saying BM costs double, but it did a few years ago when I last priced the stuff. Could be a lot less expensive these days, I wouldn't know.

 

I'll be using my CROSSFIRE as a test PIG next season. Im switching oil brands, im going from KLOTZ (30.00 per gal) to WALMART brand tc-3 (7.49 per gal) If I "HUFF" the motor due to an oil related issue, so be it.

 

A G, there are a ton of oils i'd rather use that cost way less than what the oil debated here costs and they all have had very good results (not to mention they all leave a film to boot)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C-note @ Mar 20 2007, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MUSKOKA800 @ Mar 20 2007, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just remember that before you form an extreme opinion about a product that sledders as a whole are very brand oriented whether it be sled brand or injection oil.
Some bad-mouth BM while others, like myself and others posting here have found it top-shelf. Have the haters used it long term??? Did they pay the extra cash to try it or did they turn there backs on it and bad mouth it without justification just because it's not Brand X, their favorite (and likely less expensive at the time) lube? I think the second scenario is more likely.[/b]

I'm surely not brand loyal, hell I ran polaris VESII in my '03 f5's after I seen what it put up with in a customers '03 pro-x 600 where I worked at once,, call that brand loyalty??

As i've see differences in protection factors and their levels of resistance to scuffage as well as wear, along with cleanest burning and least amt of valve carbon deposits, i've made the switches,, when I seen those polaris parts with ABSOLUTELY NO OIL TRACES ON OR UNDER (THE DOMES BOTTOMS), I made my choice then and there to ask the rep if those particular parts had been washed/rinsed off at all, to which he said ''NO'',, the bluing on the whole flat ''blade'' portion of the valve was enough to tell me that those had gotten extremely hot to do so, which is just one more thing good oils do, they help keep parts cool along with the fuel ratios necessary to accomplish this feat, now does that sound ''jumpy'' as far as forming opinions?? after all, 24+ yrs as a tech in the powersports industry has allowed me to see a whole array of oils and their pros and cons

EDIT: it may very well work in a sled that's not a high revving application and ridden easier, but let's see it last in a sled/bike that's ''put to the test'' (rpm/load wise AKA: long endurance racers), I feel safe to say, the BM machine would have substantially more wear than the other oils out there in MOST cases
[/b][/quote]

I ride my sleds extremely hard....if you think I have ever babied my motors you just need to come ride with me 1 weekend and then see what your opinion is.
So let me know when you want to come see my M7 mod on BM oil getting a beating?

 

I'm sure that original sled had other things done to it than just changing the oil. Maybe while he was in there taking the BM out he made a little adjustment on the oil pump, or something like that, that seemed inconsequential. It just does not seem reasonable that making a change in oil formulation would make that kind of difference in engine operation. When he dropped the hood down after filling the oil tank, that may have dislodged something in the fuel system that was causing the trouble in the first place. I dunno, but that seems just a likely as the magic APV oil.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C-note @ Mar 20 2007, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

A G, there are a ton of oils i'd rather use that cost way less than what the oil debated here costs and they all have had very good results (not to mention they all leave a film to boot)[/b]

Yes, that's pretty much what I've been saying... No point in spending more and not getting more.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mcflying @ Mar 20 2007, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C-note @ Mar 20 2007, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MUSKOKA800 @ Mar 20 2007, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just remember that before you form an extreme opinion about a product that sledders as a whole are very brand oriented whether it be sled brand or injection oil.
Some bad-mouth BM while others, like myself and others posting here have found it top-shelf. Have the haters used it long term??? Did they pay the extra cash to try it or did they turn there backs on it and bad mouth it without justification just because it's not Brand X, their favorite (and likely less expensive at the time) lube? I think the second scenario is more likely.[/b]

I'm surely not brand loyal, hell I ran polaris VESII in my '03 f5's after I seen what it put up with in a customers '03 pro-x 600 where I worked at in the past,, call that brand loyalty??

As i've see differences in protection factors and their levels of resistance to scuffage as well as wear, along with cleanest burning and least amt of valve carbon deposits, i've made the switches,, when I seen those polaris parts with ABSOLUTELY NO OIL TRACES ON OR UNDER (THE DOMES BOTTOMS), I made my choice then and there to ask the rep if those particular parts had been washed/rinsed off at all, to which he said ''NO'',, the bluing on the whole flat ''blade'' portion of the valve was enough to tell me that those had gotten extremely hot to do so, which is just one more thing good oils do, they help keep parts cool along with the fuel ratios necessary to accomplish this feat, now does that sound ''jumpy'' as far as forming opinions?? after all, 24+ yrs as a tech in the powersports industry has allowed me to see a whole array of oils and their pros and cons

EDIT: it may very well work in a sled that's not a high revving application and ridden easier, but let's see it last in a sled/bike that's ''put to the test'' (rpm/load wise AKA: long endurance racers), I feel safe to say, the BM machine would have substantially more wear than the other oils out there in MOST cases
[/b][/quote]

I ride my sleds extremely hard....if you think I have ever babied my motors you just need to come ride with me 1 weekend and then see what your opinion is.
So let me know when you want to come see my M7 mod on BM oil getting a beating?
[/b][/quote]
until I see an engine with a decent ''film'' of lube upon teardown and display and not looking/feeling completely dry like it'd been washed off and showing (IMO) way too much blueing, i'll then form another opinion probably, who knows?, maybe you have a slightly richer oil setting?, this guys was never touched as it had the original loctite polaris used on his cables jam nuts, just going by what I personally saw/felt/observed,, sorry if I in any way offended you, I was not trying to offend anyone

 

Amen C-note, I'm with you 100%.

Blue Marbel is the ONLY oil I have seen and heard of mant times causing burndowns due to lack of lubrication. NOT Klotz, NOT Amsoil, NOT arctic cat oil, NOT any of the others listed only BM repeatedly causing problems.

From what I have seen it has little to do with how you ride. I have seen both trail and race sleds with the same BM problem. It seems to depend on how the engine is running. If you're running pig rich the engine is running cool and you may not have a problem. If you run your jetting spot on the engine runs hotter and thats where the oil seems to burn up and quit protecting.

I'll save my engine and run a premium synthetic thanks.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't their a special process in which you let the oil seat in your cylinder walls overnight one cylinder at a time so that the oil forms a permanent layer of protection before you can actually use the Blue Marble oil in your sled?
I thought this would be a good fact for people to know so they can better understand the way Blue Marble works.


I believe I'm right............................................right? lol

yea i was right http://www.bluemarbleoil.com/Products/2Cycle.htm

this oil scares me, I'd rather just have my AMS Oil, pour it in, go ride and know that I didnt screw anything up

 

Yeah, thats a bit odd. I wouldn't touch Amsoil again either but thats just me.