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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I used to have a battery problem. A new batterie last less than 2 years, measured 1.4 volts. So I decided to troubleshoot the electrical system since I am an electrical technician in a paper mill.

I bought a new battery.
MOTOMASTER ELIMINATOR AGM Factory-Activated Powersports Battery, ETX20L

Voltage at 12.5 volts. Then I check the current when off. No current was drawn.

Switch the light on low: draws current from the battery, about 1-2 and on high 2-3 amps.

Started the ATV with no lights at idle still drawing a bit of current, with the lights on, more.

If I rev to around 3000 rpm then it starts charging the battery at 3-4 amps.

In any circumstance if you use the winch, it will draw current from the battery.

So the magneto can't give more than 3-4 amps at higher rpm.

In my case anyway.
 

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from when i owned mine the charging system is very poor on these things. Always had to come home and plug it into a maintainer to top up the battery especially if i used the winch
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
from when i owned mine the charging system is very poor on these things. Always had to come home and plug it into a maintainer to top up the battery especially if i used the winch
A magneto doesn't deliver a lot of amps but it matches the battery which should be charged with low amps. When I checked the amps potential of the magneto, I realized that even installing a car type battery wouldn't really solve the situation. It would still charge at low amps. I'm thinking of installing a voltage meter in the front to monitor what is going on.
 

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A magneto doesn't deliver a lot of amps but it matches the battery which should be charged with low amps. When I checked the amps potential of the magneto, I realized that even installing a car type battery wouldn't really solve the situation. It would still charge at low amps. I'm thinking of installing a voltage meter in the front to monitor what is going on.
Exactly !!
 

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2016 Arctic Cat Alterra 550 XT
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If you don’t ride it for very long it won’t have enough time to charge the battery back up from starting. The clock has a constant draw as well.
When you raise the RPMs the voltage should rise per service manual if not test your stator and regulator. Most times it’s the battery in this case though. Best way to test a battery is get it load tested. I had one that showed 12v but no cranking power.
Let it warm up and idle a bit if you’re not going for a ride or use a battery maintainer.


 

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If you don’t ride it for very long it won’t have enough time to charge the battery back up from starting. The clock has a constant draw as well.
When you raise the RPMs the voltage should rise per service manual if not test your stator and regulator. Most times it’s the battery in this case though. Best way to test a battery is get it load tested. I had one that showed 12v but no cranking power.
Let it warm up and idle a bit if you’re not going for a ride or use a battery maintainer.


Green Gadget Audio equipment Technology Cable
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

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Nice charger. Those should be better than the standard 2 amps chargers that you leave connected.

Charging at low amps is a good idea, normally a safe way is to charge at 10% max of the battery ah. Now they have multistage chargers. I don't know the following product, it's an example...

https://www.amazon.ca/-/fr/Chargeur-batterie-plomb-acide-compatible-intelligent/dp/B08K7GBDMT/ref=sr_1_15?__mk_fr_CA=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=smart+charger+with+agm+model&qid=1632181285&sr=8-15


Batteries when purchased are not completely charged correctly at time of purchase, my A/C dealership keep mine on charge overnight until it was at full voltage. A lot of chain stores will fast charge in 15 minutes and send you on your way..Uganda Tire is well known for doing this practice. And your completely correct about charging on board, snowmobiles, motorcycles, quads, side by sides or any recreational vehicles have very poor charging systems … with the exception of Kawasaki; they have developed a new system that charges even at idle. The charger I use from A/C is a great product, during a really cold spell(s) I plug mine in to ensure I won’t have any issues when it’s time to make tracks in the snow. Included with the charger is two plug jacks, one that is screwed on to the battery terminals; which I use; the other is a alligator style clips which are temporary. I purchased a second charger just for my car, great for those -35C or colder nights; keeps the battery from freezing. One no no is to never charge a frozen battery, remove from vehicle; thaw it out; then begin charging.
 

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A fully charged battery will not freeze.
 

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A fully charged battery will not freeze.
Totally agree with you doorfx,battery in my car was 5 years old, lead acid… I have no volt meter on my dashboard…didn’t know the condition until it was too late, car started fine when I went to work; by morning at -47C the battery was frozen. We had very harsh weather for 14 days straight, high in the day time was -24 C with a wind chill of who knows what. Car started fine for 12 days straight so the thought of my battery freezing never occurred to me. Going to purchase a new battery soon.. not going to replace with lead acid, gell cell with enough cranking amps to spin the car on its roof.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Indeed, a fully charged battery will not freeze in winter. The battery is not drained in cold weather, it's just less efficient at generating current because the chemical reaction is not optimized. As soon as the temperature gets warmer, the chemical reaction becomes optimized again.

You can compare the effect of temperature as resistance in the battery. The colder it is, higher the resistance, thus limiting more and more the current.
 

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Heat also causes resistance.
 
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Don't get to high tech on your battery chargers... The more tech in them the worse they are, Some of them will not even start a charge if the voltage is to low. So then you have to boost the battery to fool the charger...
 

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I would have to disagree with that statement.
High tech chargers have the ability to charge a battery as low as 3.1 volts. They can also repair a battery by de-sulfating and reducing stratification by using an equalization charge.
They can charge a battery based on its condition.
They can also charge many types of batteries with the ability to manually selecting battery type. There are many new technologies and advancements in batteries that your old school two stage chargers just cannot accomplish.
Check out some of the higher end chargers , it will surprise you.
Noco Genius high end chargers for example.
I have an older g26000 model but it still puts any standard battery charger to shame. It has also recovered 5 or more batteries that I thought were shot. It has paid for itself, just in those batteries, by using the repair mode.

 

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I would have to disagree with that statement.
High tech chargers have the ability to charge a battery as low as 3.1 volts. They can also repair a battery by de-sulfating and reducing stratification by using an equalization charge.
They can charge a battery based on its condition.
They can also charge many types of batteries with the ability to manually selecting battery type. There are many new technologies and advancements in batteries that your old school two stage chargers just cannot accomplish.
Check out some of the higher end chargers , it will surprise you.
Noco Genius high end chargers for example.
I have an older g26000 model but it still puts any standard battery charger to shame. It has also recovered 5 or more batteries that I thought were shot. It has paid for itself, just in those batteries, by using the repair mode.

Thanks for the info doorfx, going to read up on this charger.. although a wee bit pricey.
 

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Yes they are pricey, but like I said ,if it saves a couple $150 batteries it is not so expensive.
Sometimes you can find them used for less.
There are also smaller versions.
 
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I would have to disagree with that statement.
High tech chargers have the ability to charge a battery as low as 3.1 volts. They can also repair a battery by de-sulfating and reducing stratification by using an equalization charge.
They can charge a battery based on its condition.
They can also charge many types of batteries with the ability to manually selecting battery type. There are many new technologies and advancements in batteries that your old school two stage chargers just cannot accomplish.
Check out some of the higher end chargers , it will surprise you.
Noco Genius high end chargers for example.
I have an older g26000 model but it still puts any standard battery charger to shame. It has also recovered 5 or more batteries that I thought were shot. It has paid for itself, just in those batteries, by using the repair mode.

I said don't go t high end these are far from high end i own several of them for my machines that i use all winter to keep my battery's up. The oldest one of 8 years just died last year... With work we have purchase and used some good high end models and quite honestly they were junk. They actually almost destroyed some battery's after their battery saving feature was activated or they would just refuse to charge battery's and had to get the old school charge out to save them and then put one of my genius on em for a week to bring them back to life.. I have had the genius ones also destroy battery's on me but its still cheaper than buying battery's every year after the winter. Each charger/ maintainer has its place
 

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Did you get warranty for the faulty high end chargers that destroyed your batteries ? I would be screaming bloody murder. What brand/model where they, so we can avoid them?

I work in the battery industry and I can honestly say , that has never been my experience. I’m sorry for your bad luck.

We sell everything from small 8 amp chargers to large lift truck chargers that cost $5-6000. We sell lift truck batteries that go any where from $8000 for lead acid to $32,000 for lithium. The high end chargers are always better than the low end chargers.
Companies that have a fleet of 50 battery operated lift trucks , have put this to the test many times over.









 

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Gel and AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries require a voltage-limited charger. Charging a Gel or AGM battery on a typical shop charger – even one time – may greatly shorten its life. These have become the norm in the power sports industry. Make sure your charger is suitable for your battery.

Quote,

All battery chemistries convert chemical energy into electrical energy via a REDOX or reduction oxidation reaction. Batteries are comprised of cells, and each cell is actually 2 half cells which are connected in series via the electrolyte which contains both +vely and -vely charge ions (anions and cations). One of these half cells contains the anode(-ve electrode) and the other the cathode. Anions and cations respectively travel to these electrodes.
Anyways, because it's a redox reaction, the cations are reduced, which means electrons are added, while the anions are oxidized, ie electrons are removed. The separate reactions each have a number called a redox potential, and an associated emf, or a voltage if you will, that being the ability to drive a current. The net emf is sum of these two potentials and is the voltage of your cell. so Ecell= Ecathode-Eanode + K -ir
Where K is a correction for conditions and ir is the natural internal resistance. The internal resistance will vary based on the materials chosen and the reactions involved. Generally you want a battery that will give you the biggest Ecell, but there are compromises to be made, based again on the chemical reactions and materials involved.
A chemical reaction consists of a series of steps which progress at a rate. And particular steps are known as rate limiting steps, because they determine the overall rate for the reaction. This reaction rate is influenced by two things:

that reactants must be transported to the reaction site, in this case, the electrode. So this means that the reactants must be in the correct form, they must diffuse to reach the electrode, must be adsorbed by the electrode, and then the electron transfer occurs.

The reaction kinetics. In many chemical reactions, instead of taking a direct route to the final products, the reacting species form intermediate products which then react to form the final products. The rate limiting steps can arise from the formation of particular intermediaries, if those intermediaries form much more slowly than the others which may occur. The formation of these intermediaries, and overall reactions themselves are energy dependent.Chemical bond making releases energy and bond breaking requires energy. In forming the bonds, the reactants need to have what is called an activation energy, which is the minimum energy required for them to react. The reactants have a kinetic energy distribution which looks like a bell curve, and only those reactants with sufficient high enough kinetic energy, ie activation energy or higher, can react to form products, therefore, only a part of the reactants can do this, thus limiting the rate.

Since Temperature is a measure of kinetic energy, a lower temperature means a lower kinetic energy, which means fewer reactant species will have sufficient energy at or past activation energy. Therefore fewer reactants can react, and do so at a slower rate. This means that electron production is decreased. This is perceived as increased ir, or, even a dead battery. I think a change of 10 or so degrees can effectively halve the performance.
However, if you warm the battery up, it will return to normal performance. In my work as a diesel technician, the diesel gensets would have battery heaters, to make sure they are warm enough to operate. At low enough temperatures, the battery wont be able to produce enough cranking amps to start the genset, which is bad if you are a factory running of a genset and could be bad if you want electricity to stop yourself from freezing to death.
If you want to fly electric during the cold, make sure your batteries are warm, else you'll be sorry. I wonder if there is a market for lipo battery heaters fr cold flying?
Another interesting point, is that hybrid and electric vehicles are drastically affected by cold weather, so in winter, those lovely high mg ratings will just drop off.
 
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Can't remember what it was now.. Just remember going by the dumpster one day and seeing it in their and being told by the boss leave it the @#$% in their..LOL

I have probably dealt with your company at some point
 
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