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Discussion Starter #1
My wife was just in at the local CAT dealer y'day and one of the mechanics said they weren't ordering in any APV oil this year because they were having engine problems with it. This is the first I've heard of this, and was wondering if it's true or he's blowing smoke up everyone's butt? Anyone else heard of this problem? If so, I'm switching to Blue Marble or Amsoil.

Pat
Inkom, ID
 

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I run APV oil no problems power valves are always clean & 140 psi after 3600 miles. Just had a sled & jet ski mechanic tell me Amsoil make arctic cat APV oil, not sure if he's right but APV does it's job
 

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Well, I've ran it in 3 of my sleds for about 3 years now, and my buddy with his M7 uses it, and we don't have any issues. That is why it was a surprise when this 19 yr. old mechanic/kid said the place isn't even going to order any to sell to customers this year because it's causing problems... You'd think if it was an issue, someone would have heard about it by now.
 

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Another user here with no problems.

I wonder if "we arn't ordering it cause we have they are having problems with it" really means. We have out standing debt with AC, or they are literally have problems ordering it... back order ETC...
 

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ISO-L-EGC which is similar to the JASO FC rating.

The ISO-L-EGD+ was created to establish a higher standard of detergency and ability to withstand higher levels of heat. The new test runs for 3 hours vs 1 hour for the previous test.
If a lubricant is certified ISO-L-EGD+ it has passed the most stringent tests set by American, Japanese and European engine manufacturers. Polaris recommends TC-W3 lubricants, Yamaha JASO FC and Ski-Doo/Sea-Doo requires ISO-L-EDG+ lubricants.
None of the three North American snowmobile manufacturers specify use of TC-W3 oil in their owner’s manuals. Bombardier pointedly tells its customers not to use it, recommending API-TC rated oil instead.

Until recently, the top JASO oil rating was FC, and you will continue to see this listed in many places. But the tougher FD rating is now available, and some companies upgraded their products. The JASO-FC standard is also important because it includes a test to specifically measure exhaust smoke. So JASO-FC and the subsequent FD test is the key for visible exhaust emissions.

ISO-L-EGD is the top European two-stroke standard, with EGC and EGB as lower performance levels. A plus sign after the letters (EGD+) means that the rating is significantly exceeded.

Use the oil ratings as a guide, compare costs and availability, and try to stay with one product if possible. Availability becomes a factor for many of us; if you can’t carry enough with you, run something that you can find readily where you ride to fill the gaps.

Plain old TCW-3 won’t cut it in many of the higher-tech engines. Look for JASO-FC (and now FD) and ISO EGD ratings as indicators of a minimum performance standard for the newest, trickest engines. Mod packages may require extra quality and or quantity to provide adequate lubrication; consult with the engine builder or package supplier on what their experience has been.

ISO EGD is the “European” specification that slightly exceeds the “Japanese” JASO-FC. There is a new JASO-FD spec, as the ISO and JASO testing sequences have come closer together with the latest ‘FD’ and ‘EGD’ designations. Previously, the only difference was a 1 hour and 3 hour detergency - lubricity - ring groove - sticking test with JASO-FC and ISO-EGD respectively. Now, they are the same set of tests.




Maxima TundraR, a synthetic blend that is pretty clean burning, ISO EGD

Amsoil Interceptor & Dominator Both are rated JASO FC, API TC

Klotz Snowmobile Techniplate- TCW-3

Spectro that is also ISO EGD rated

Blue Marble claims to be ISO EGD rated

ARCTIC BLUE™ Synthetic Blend is qualified internationally: Exceeds API TC or TSC-3 in North America. Exceeds Japanese Automobile Standard Organization new JASO specification "FC". Meets or exceeds performance requirements of International Standards Organization new ISO Global Specifications "GC" (ISO-L-EGC) and "GD"
(ISO-L-EGD).

Torco Exceeds JASO-FC / ISO-L-EGD / API-TC

Shell Advance Snow Ultra High Performance Synthetic Snowmobile Oil ISO-EGD and the JASO FC standard.

Maxima Lubricants Super-M Injector Oil Exceeds BIA/TC-W, JASO-FC, ISO-E-GD & API-TC specifications

Legend ZX-2R exceeds NMMA (formerly BIA) TCW3, ISO-L-EGB and JASO FB specifications. ZX-2R is a mineral based, synthetically infused blend of superior chemical components designed to outperform the most expensive synthetics.

Legend ZX-2SR exceeds API TC, ISO-L-EGD and JASO FC+ specifications. ZX-2SR is a blend of the finest mineral base stocks “chemically infused” with nano-molecular additive technology.
Royal Purple-TCW-III

Citgo SuperGard Sea and Snow. Citgo is Venezuela’s oil company run by Hugo Chavez. The synthetic blend formula meets or exceeds the rigorous requirements of the API TC, JASO FC and ISO EGD classifications for 2-cycle air-cooled engine oils and also exceeds the performance requirements for JASO FA, JASO FB, ISO-L-EGB, and ISO-L-EGC. The JASO FC Certification Number is 001 CGO 535. SUPERGARD Sea and Snow is formulated primarily for use in snowmobiles and personal watercraft.

Redline SyntheticTwo-Stroke Snowmobile - is not rated. Test results state that it can be used where ISO-L-EGD, JASO FD, or API TC lubricants are recommended, but is not designed for outboard use..

Arctic Cat 50:1 Injection Oil - Arctic Cat does not rate their oil. Arctic Cat runs a number of motors at different rpm's on the emission dyno's and sleds in the field for hundreds of hours. So Arctic Cat does their own testing with Suzuki.

Phillips 66® Injex - TC-W3® certified by the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA), and also meets API TC and JASO FB

Yamalube Land (Red box with “2-S” on it) - STANDARDS: API TC – TSC 3 JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD Approval No: M081 YMC 525

Castrol SNOW 2T SNOWMOBILE OIL - API TC or NMMA TC-W3®
 

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I guess I have to tell you the same thing I tell my wife when she comes home and tells me about her day, Im just a simple guy that builds things with his hands, explain that to me in english so I can understand. Does all that mean cat oil is bad or what, read about 2 paragraphs got a headache had to stop.
 

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I (my dad also) have used a//c oil since the 70s (purple power) with no problems the first major problem we had was
this year w/the couger 12600mi on it and wasnt from the oil, water pump went and had to do a total rebuild on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I had a neighbor go to another dealer (Rexburg Motor Sports) y'day and asked them about the APV oil and they said they hadn't heard a peep about the APV oil being bad, and actually had gallons and galllons of it in stock. I think this other dealership is the one having problems. I'm going to continue to use the APV oil and not look back. I think this issue is a dead horse!
 

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Its like anyone just because they are a cat dealer does not mean they prefer cat oil. And most likely have another prefered oil, maybe they are also a Amsoil or Koltz dealer

All I know about APV oil is the guy I bought my Cat from used it in my ZR 600 VEV amnd his 2 Firecats and found it gummed up the valves and he switched to Shell the yr before I bought my sled and valves were much cleaner
 
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