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Wonderful. I've had 3 cracked Team primaries in 6000 miles on '17 ZR9000! I hope this is the answer. Team recall and warranty claims must have finally hit home at Cat! Not to mention the most important issue which is all the exploded Team primaries where people have been hurt!!! The Consumer Product Safety Commission official actions (requiring Cat to address the exploding Team clutches) likely had an impact. Whatever it takes is my position. Let's hope this new clutch is better from a safety standpoint than the Team it replaces.
I heard that there were some issues with the ‘17-18 Team primary’s, saw a few photos on site of them exploding; pretty violent damage that occurred but no one injured. No issues with my clutch on my ‘19 Zr 800, but then again I only had 700 miles on it before I traded it in for a ‘22 Zr 600RR. I’m going to have a good look at the new primary and snoop around for any cracks. 🤔
 

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No one injured?! Not hardly. There are some pics from exploded Team primaries (most on 998 turbos) that are too gruesome to post. The guys at Thunder Products have plenty of horrible pics. And it's not just '17-18 sleds. There are plenty of newer ones too, some '21s with only 1500 miles on them! ZR8000's too! If you have some time, read this thread over on HCS (ZR9000 Team clutch explosion).
 

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No one injured?! Not hardly. There are some pics from exploded Team primaries (most on 998 turbos) that are too gruesome to post. The guys at Thunder Products have plenty of horrible pics. And it's not just '17-18 sleds. There are plenty of newer ones too, some '21s with only 1500 miles on them! ZR8000's too! If you have some time, read this thread over on HCS (ZR9000 Team clutch explosion).
Turboflash, I should have been more specific, the posts that I read on this site no injuries occurred, but the info you sent me..there have been many injuries..WOW! I had no idea that the faulty clutch’s were that much of a issue and the Safety board has issued a recall and warning. This type of issue with primary clutches goes back into the early ‘80’s. A friend of mine started his El’Tigre 5000 and let it warm up, upon takeoff it moved 40 feet and the clutch exploded; tells you that the problems in the past still remains. What I believe should be done in the future is magna-fluxing and doing a X-Ray of the clutches to insure that the general public stays safe and A/C’s reputation remains in good public standing. Not sure if a thicker clutch guard would actually help, the forces exerted by a chunk of metal spinning over 8000rpm are no match for a thick piece of aluminum; might help a little but shrapnel can bounce off something else and still do harm to the operation; or even a innocent bystander. Thanks for the info dude!
 

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There have many high-performance snowmobiles made over the last 50 years that didn't have problems with exploding primary clutches. And, there have many average performance sleds made over the same period that also had problems with primary clutches. IMO, it's all about engineering, testing, and specifying the RIGHT materials. Cost is so much of a driving factor (limiting factor) these days that the OEMs make bad decisions on quality just because the bean-counters say so (don't want to afford the RIGHT materials/processes, etc) but rather do it CHEAP.
The '17 & newer Cat Team clutch moveable side is too thin down by the center roller bearing. Eventually, they crack and will fly apart. Cat Engineering has known about this issue for a long time but decisions were made to cover it up and pretend it's not a problem. It would certainly have been possible to permanently fix the problem but the bean-counters said it would have been too expensive to recall them all. IMO, the new ADAPT clutch was introduced to replace the Team clutch to solve the problem. Let's hope it does and there are no more cracking and exploding primaries. But, there are still tons of the Team clutches out in the field that will cause carnage and injuries and that's a shame. The RIGHT thing for Cat to do would have been to recall and replace them. But, I suppose that would have put Cat out of business.
 

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There have many high-performance snowmobiles made over the last 50 years that didn't have problems with exploding primary clutches. And, there have many average performance sleds made over the same period that also had problems with primary clutches. IMO, it's all about engineering, testing, and specifying the RIGHT materials. Cost is so much of a driving factor (limiting factor) these days that the OEMs make bad decisions on quality just because the bean-counters say so (don't want to afford the RIGHT materials/processes, etc) but rather do it CHEAP.
The '17 & newer Cat Team clutch moveable side is too thin down by the center roller bearing. Eventually, they crack and will fly apart. Cat Engineering has known about this issue for a long time but decisions were made to cover it up and pretend it's not a problem. It would certainly have been possible to permanently fix the problem but the bean-counters said it would have been too expensive to recall them all. IMO, the new ADAPT clutch was introduced to replace the Team clutch to solve the problem. Let's hope it does and there are no more cracking and exploding primaries. But, there are still tons of the Team clutches out in the field that will cause carnage and injuries and that's a shame. The RIGHT thing for Cat to do would have been to recall and replace them. But, I suppose that would have put Cat out of business.
In my opinion testing of the primary’s would be a simple solution, although the price of doing the testing would be passed on to the consumer; paying a few more dunkettes for testing would make me feel safer knowing that it’s not going to shatter and explode. Magna flux and X-ray testing doesn’t come cheap, but it seems a necessity nowadays with high horsepower power plants. 🤯
 

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In my opinion testing of the primary’s would be a simple solution, although the price of doing the testing would be passed on to the consumer; paying a few more dunkettes for testing would make me feel safer knowing that it’s not going to shatter and explode. Magna flux and X-ray testing doesn’t come cheap, but it seems a necessity nowadays with high horsepower power plants. 🤯
The team clutches are pure trash. They need to step up and recall them. Sending out questionable clutches is where corners should not be cut. Some one could and probably has been seriously hurt by it.
 

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The team clutches are pure trash. They need to step up and recall them. Sending out questionable clutches is where corners should not be cut. Some one could and probably has been seriously hurt by it.
Does anyone know exactly where they manufacture the Team clutch’s? Seems to me that the blame should be put on the manufacturer that produces them and not A/C themselves, is it Dalton that produces the clutches in question? Good quality materials and testing before installing would be the best possible solution to this issue dude’s!
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Does anyone know exactly where they manufacture the Team clutch’s? Seems to me that the blame should be put on the manufacturer that produces them and not A/C themselves, is it Dalton that produces the clutches in question? Good quality materials and testing before installing would be the best possible solution to this issue dude’s!
 

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Well, the clutches are made in the US; wondering if Team knows what the issue was with the units that failed? Foundry, Metallurgy; a combination of both? Both clutches have to be balanced, so why not do a X-Ray at the same time. Are they taking a random clutch off the assembly line and doing a metallurgy testing?
 

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Well, the clutches are made in the US; wondering if Team knows what the issue was with the units that failed? Foundry, Metallurgy; a combination of both? Both clutches have to be balanced, so why not do a X-Ray at the same time. Are they taking a random clutch off the assembly line and doing a metallurgy testing?
Good questions. Two observations to share:
i) Parts are generally made to specs provided by the customer, which begs the question - was Team's execution of the ask the issue or was the ask the underlying problem?
ii) Ski-Doo's original TRA clutch was recognized as being a very robust and durable clutch. I am told it was built by CVTech (out of Drummondville, Qc). Doo changed suppliers and went to TEAM for some of the later generation TRAs and, lo and behold, problem began to surface. Coincidence? Again, consider point i above
 

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Team builds the p85 and most of the poo clutches that people rave about, as well as portions of the pdrive. Its not the production that sucks, its the design. The older clutches without the bearing were better than the ones with the bearing.

Is anyone making any adjustable clutch weights for the new ADAPT clutch yet?
 

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Team builds the p85 and most of the poo clutches that people rave about, as well as portions of the pdrive. Its not the production that sucks, its the design. The older clutches without the bearing were better than the ones with the bearing.

Is anyone making any adjustable clutch weights for the new ADAPT clutch yet?
From what I’ve read on this site is that the ‘17-18 clutches without the bearing are the problem clutches and were being recalled and had service bulletins put out for them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Team builds the p85 and most of the poo clutches that people rave about, as well as portions of the pdrive. Its not the production that sucks, its the design. The older clutches without the bearing were better than the ones with the bearing.

Is anyone making any adjustable clutch weights for the new ADAPT clutch yet?
P85 has been haveing lots of problems too....
Poo went to a design with an idler bearing for next year
 

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From what I’ve read on this site is that the ‘17-18 clutches without the bearing are the problem clutches and were being recalled and had service bulletins put out for them.
Not true. Starting in 2017, the Team primary on TCats/ZR9000 all had center roller bearing. They are too thin on the movable side down by the bearing. Eventually, they will crack due to fatigue.
 

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Team Industries is a machining vendor to Cat. They do not design the clutch - Arctic Cat does that. Team machines the parts to Arctic Cat blueprints. The fault is 100% with design at Cat. I worked in precision machining (aircraft and medical parts measured in the 4th, 5th, and 6th decimal place!) for over 40 years. From the clutches I've seen, machining is not the problem, it's the poor design and lack of testing over time.
 

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Not true. Starting in 2017, the Team primary on TCats/ZR9000 all had center roller bearing. They are too thin on the movable side down by the bearing. Eventually, they will crack due to fatigue.
The movable sheave changed quite a bit with the roller bearing clutches. The old style had a basic bushing around the shaft. The roller bearing clutches have a steel collar that is pressed into the sheave. The steel collar is pretty substantial. Clutches that go through a lot of high heat cycles at lower engagement show more issues. Who knows, it could be related to the heat cycling with dissimilar materials?

The information about the service recall must be misleading. The sleds started using standard Team clutches in 2016 and the bulletin is related to the early roller bearing clutches. The bearing clutches were first used on the turbos. The 2S sleds started using them on the 2018 M.Y. The bulletin was related to the early version and didn't affect the 2S regular build in 2018.
 
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