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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys. My son's sled started running without the key today. Checked the ignition switch. It's working okay. Pulled the two wires off the back and checked for resistance. There is none. Is this supposed to be the way it is? Any advise as to how to source the problem is appreciated. Perhaps someone can send me a schematic of the ignition. Thanks.
 

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The switch should have 0 ohms when off and infinite ohms when on. You need to get a new switch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hey. Thanks guys for the response. Checked the switch; it's good. Ground strap is okay too. However, he was out today; sled ran great for 30 mins or so; then died. Starts great, idles great, but when you apply throttle, it bogs and does not pick up the rpms. Had to get towed back to house. What could be going on??? His friend says it's electrical. Could it be? Seems like something is breaking down after 30 mins or so. Please help !!!
 

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Sounds like a fuel delivery problem to me. Start at the fuel cap and work your way through the filter and to the carburetors. I had 2 fuel delivery issues this season on my ZR440 Sno-Pro;

1) Installed a fancy fuel gauge cap in place of the plain black cap. Caused stalling and bogging. Replaced with old cap, problems went away.

2) Noticed some frost on my fuel line to the carburetor (PTO side). The fuel line was cracked - yikes! Replaced the line, no more problems.

Sometimes the problems are really basic, just a lot of close inspection to find the root cause.

Question (to help eliminate the electrical bugs as a source of the problem);

When you pull the starter cord after a "failure", does the headlamp glow? If so, I'd tend to rule out electrical issues.

Have you used any Arctic Cat fuel antifreeze/dryer? It will help remove moisture from the fuel system. Also, use premium fuels if available (they tend to not be blended with harmful oxygenates).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hey, thanks for the quick reply. I will check the headlight glowing on pulling the 'rip-cord'. That's an easy one. The other thing you mentioned that I remember seeing this past weekend, is like a bunch of white frost needles radiating on the fuel filter. Does this mean a crack or something? I have used gasline antifreeze with water remover on a regular basis. Shouldn't this fix any water issues in the tank? I just assumed it to be electrical since the key stopped working yesterday. Seems coincidental that the problem started about when this happened. Could be just a fluke though.
Thanks,
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hey sysanalyst and opther guys. Just spent couple of hours looking for the problem. Drained bowls on carbs, looked for frayed or broken wires, inspected carb-to-engine flanges, checked for broken fuels lines, checked hose from engine to fuel pump, headlite stays bright when idling, and the like. Machine starts fine in the garage, idles good, but when throttle is applied engine will not accelerate beyond idle. It like bogs and backfires when throttle is applied. Got it running okay for a minute or so. I can see gas coming over from the pump to the carbs okay. Spark plugs are new but after tests are blackened. Is it a timing problem? Engine problem? Coil problem ?

Thanks for your help!
 

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Hmm... Your sled starts, idles fine, but dies when the throttle opens. Electrical seems good (rules out coil), headlamp is bright (stator okay). That just sounds like fuel delivery issues to me. (Black plugs are common under idle only conditions). Have you tried to "blow back" bubbles from the fuel filter back into the tank? Is the tank cap/vent tube good? Do you have a fuel pressure tester (under $10 at harborfreight.com)? May want to ensure the fuel pressure is okay(3+ PSI); the presence of fuel in the lines is okay, but not a certainty that it will supply enough for an engine under load. The backfire is a sign of not enough fuel (lean). Perhaps the fuel pump is either faulty, or the impulse vac line is leaking.

To rule out engine issues; run a compression test using a compression tester. Look for 75+ PSI per jug.

To ensure spark is sufficient, remove one plug, put the plug back into the wire boot and ground the base. Start the engine (yes - it will idle on one cylinder). Watch for spark on the exposed plug. Increase throttle opening and see if the spark persists. This will ensure that the spark is the problem (or not).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi Nick,

Just got back in from the garage. Went and got new fuel filter and some new line. Replaced line from tank to filter, filter to shut-off valve and shut-off valve to pump. Took pump off and apart. Diaphrams look fine. Put back on. Checked impulse vac line. No cracks. When I removed it from the pump, removed spark plugs and pulled machine over to check for vacuum, seemed low to me. Do the plugs have to be in the engine to generate enough compression and vacuum ??? I do not have a fuel pressure gauge. Disconnected all wiring except for what is required to run engine. Started up engine. No difference. Backfiring seems to be from the left (clutch side) cylinder. Fuel lines to carbs show fuel spilling over the 'hill' to get to carbs but not as much for left cylinder. Compression in both cylinders is at 115psi. Removed one plug at a time and did the spark test as you suggested. Both plugs are sparking perfectly. I see that the impulse vac line is attached to engine base. I assume that it works on vacuum generated in the base of the engine. Is there anything in the engine that can cause this pulse to be weak? This seems to be where the problem may lie. How about the carbs? I inspected them. All hoses, tubes and screws are intact. Tank cap and vent tube are okay as well.

Thanks,
Terry

P.S. Nick, I live in Newfoundland Canada and we got hammered here last night. 45cms snow (1.5ft) with winds gusting to 60mph. Took me 2.5hrs. to snow blow my driveway this morning. Drifts at 4ft. My son is using my ZR500 today (snow day at school) while I try and resolve the issue with his sled (with your help).
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TerrySS396 @ Feb 20 2007, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Hi Nick,

Just got back in from the garage. Went and got new fuel filter and some new line. Replaced line from tank to filter, filter to shut-off valve and shut-off valve to pump. Took pump off and apart. Diaphrams look fine. Put back on. Checked impulse vac line. No cracks. When I removed it from the pump, removed spark plugs and pulled machine over to check for vacuum, seemed low to me. Do the plugs have to be in the engine to generate enough compression and vacuum ??? I do not have a fuel pressure gauge. Disconnected all wiring except for what is required to run engine. Started up engine. No difference. Backfiring seems to be from the left (clutch side) cylinder. Fuel lines to carbs show fuel spilling over the 'hill' to get to carbs but not as much for left cylinder. Compression in both cylinders is at 115psi. Removed one plug at a time and did the spark test as you suggested. Both plugs are sparking perfectly. I see that the impulse vac line is attached to engine base. I assume that it works on vacuum generated in the base of the engine. Is there anything in the engine that can cause this pulse to be weak? This seems to be where the problem may lie. How about the carbs? I inspected them. All hoses, tubes and screws are intact. Tank cap and vent tube are okay as well.

Thanks,
Terry

P.S. Nick, I live in Newfoundland Canada and we got hammered here last night. 45cms snow (1.5ft) with winds gusting to 60mph. Took me 2.5hrs. to snow blow my driveway this morning. Drifts at 4ft. My son is using my ZR500 today (snow day at school) while I try and resolve the issue with his sled (with your help).[/b]
Well, you have good compression, good spark, but questionable fuel delivery...

The weak vac pulse can be caused by several things; leaky/cracked vac lines, blown case seals (this is bad), holes in pistons (really bad - but not a possibility with 115 psi on both jugs) and other case cracks/leaks. The plugs should be in to test for vac pulse and it should be strong, fuel pressure must be at least 3-5 PSI for the engine to run correctly at 5K+ RPM.

What RPM does the "bog down/stall" begin?

I'd also pull the carbs (fairly easy) and inspect for junk in the bowls. I believe your carbs have magnetic switches on them, you may want to try disconnecting it/jumpering it to see if it helps as I've heard that they can be problematic as they are tied to the ignition system. Also, make sure the throttle cables are correctly adjusted.


PS. Was a bright sunny 70 degree day in Central Florida, just counting the days until my next trip to Michigan. Can't wait to ride the new 2001 ZR 440 S/P. Will have to settle for the wake board/boat until then.


Laptop is about to die - battery in warning state. TTYL
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for that Nick. I did not mention that the machine has V Force reeds installed. Can these in any way cause a fuel delivery issue??
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TerrySS396 @ Feb 21 2007, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Thanks for that Nick. I did not mention that the machine has V Force reeds installed. Can these in any way cause a fuel delivery issue??[/b]
Don't know about that, not sure what the V-Force reeds look like.

By the way; do you have an SS396? - my brother has a red 1967 Chevelle SS 396 sitting in his garage (with black vinyl top and the neat looking hood).
 

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I had the identical symptom with a faulty rebuilt stator I bought from RMstator. Started easily, and idled fine but pin it and it wouldn't get above 2000 RPM. Also thought my problem was fuel related at first. Sounds like you've eliminated the basics tho.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Isn't the stator the same as the magneto? I got spark on both cylinders. Also got a good bright headlight. Am I missing something?
 

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Magneto and stator are the same thing. I had spark on both cylinders as well. Would start first pull no problem. Just wouldn't go above 2000 rpms, also getting misfiring. I had more backfiring problems when the ground wire broke on the second stator I got from them but very similar symptoms.

The lighting circuit is inpedendant of the ignition circuit so it's very possible to have a strong headlight.

I went as far as tearing down the engine completely (many thanks to Thundercat 900 for helping) before I went back to the stator as my culprit. I found a spot on the stator where the goop they use for insulation, was thin and exposed the green lead to the stator grounding plate.

Even if your carbs were in really bad shape your engine would still likely reach engagement RPM. If you've checked the basics and ensured they are good, the sator is just another possiblilty. Keep in mind no one takes returns on them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TerrySS396 @ Feb 22 2007, 07:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Isn't the stator the same as the magneto? I got spark on both cylinders. Also got a good bright headlight. Am I missing something?[/b]
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks Kev. I will remove the recoil and inspect stator (if I can see it). Also will be able to see if the crank seal is blown. On another machine, Iwhen it is running, I got gas pouring out of one of the overflow hoses on the carb. Throttle response is also poor. What's with that??
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TerrySS396 @ Feb 22 2007, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
...On another machine, Iwhen it is running, I got gas pouring out of one of the overflow hoses on the carb. Throttle response is also poor. What's with that??[/b]
Sounds like a float/needle pin problem. Remove carb and inspect.

Good luck on that stator, they are a pin in the butt (and pocketbook) to deal with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hi Nick,

Yeah. Found the problem with the carb; main needle sticking from crud in the bowl. Easy fix. Yes, I own a 1968 Chevelle SS396.

Terry
 

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You'll have to get the flywheel off too. I take out only the center bolt and stick a puller on it, put some tension on the puller, then tap the flywheel gently with a hammer, then repeat untill the flywheel pops off. Might want to put something underneath in that area to soften the landing of the flywheel. Good luck with it!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TerrySS396 @ Feb 22 2007, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Thanks Kev. I will remove the recoil and inspect stator (if I can see it). Also will be able to see if the crank seal is blown. On another machine, Iwhen it is running, I got gas pouring out of one of the overflow hoses on the carb. Throttle response is also poor. What's with that??[/b]
 

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this to me sounds like it might be the TSS. maybe i missed it but have you tryed to disconnect that?? the bushings for it in the throttle may have gone bad, my z 440 was doing the same thing and i switched the bushings around and it went away (moved bottom to top, top to bottom). i would try that before you went and put all that money into the stator
 
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