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Let me give you all a scenario;
Guy walks into a car dealer to buy a new car from a company more or less on the ropes. Ok? Lets say for humor it's a Studebaker. Walks in walks up to a sales person and asks whats available and the salesmans says "get the hell away from me you punk (62 year old successful man) come back when I think you have some money"


case closed!
 

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@guudasitgets

Tony, I am supplying a list from the 2005/2006 season from a former “mom and pop” shop I worked for many years ago. This list is only one example of something I can personally guarantee in my backing of Krom’s comment concerning sleds going from one dealer to another (finding LOS)

We constantly (year round) were buying sleds from Cat, that were otherwise, on their way back to TRF due to massive overstocks back then.

Cat had a massive incentives plan for dealers who’d buy these sleds from another dealer versus Cat having to have them shipped all the way back to them.

That is why we were able to sell leftover model year sleds for actual dealer cost (of their cost during the particular MY of each unit), and still make a few hundred $$’s, not to mention we sold (literally) :turd:-load’s of PARTS and ACCESSORIES (not to mention we had a service dept that was constantly on the go (between unloading units Monday through Wednesday), looking them over, pick ticketing parts needed, ordering said parts 5, and sometimes 7 times a week (doing more than one order a day couple times per week) to have them ready come following Friday and Saturday morning.

We traditionally stocked in excess of 220+ BRAND NEW UNITS yearly back then.
Hell!! Spring of 2006 we had our regional reps ZR900SP sold to a guy in Wasilla, Ak. (A guy I’d pm’d on Hcs years ago when he was looking for the best $$ on one of those he could find)
He sent one of his employees down by jet to Chicago to pick up a new SOD truck for the company and had him drive the additional (one way) 360 miles for me to load it into the truck and send him on his way back to Ak.

Sleds do switch dealers often. And so do autos.

Just sayin’

This ⬆⬆ is exactly what I spoke of earlier, and is basically what Krom was referring to when he mentioned sleds going from one dealer to another.

And the sleds going from one dealer to another still does happen to this very day, as I tend to load lots of our stock into other dealers trucks and trailers for such deals as what he was referring to.
 

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For the record;
Krom does not , has not , and will not represent Cat on this site. Krom is just a guy that works for Cat. There is NO affiliation with Cat and this site, nor it’s admins or mods. @guudasitgets
I have read this thread , twice. I see no reason for Krom to apologize to you , in fact it looks like it should be the other way around. This will be the end of this BS.
Now back on topic or a good thread will be locked.
 

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Dealers can do dealer searches or call Cat directly.
EXACTLY! Happens all the time.
Hell, were it not for our overstock (in middle of farming country) that Cat instills upon us, SHPS wouldn’t have sold as many sleds as he did this season.. :lol:
(I lost count of how many sleds my long time friend Jim got from us)

No Rusty I hear you and I know that , understand that thats is normal dealer practice and I "get it". And I do listen.

But I don't respect someone that sells a product that insults publicly, constantly (for some reason) someone thats a prospective buyer for a company that's having problems. Even when this company is having problems he just can't stop this stuff. I'm looking, have a couple to look at may buy one of them but still lot of time till spring. But i don't need to be talked to like this guy does, never degraded him ever.
To go along with doorfx’s comment above, please read the next to last comment near the bottom of my signature.

While some of us here do work for dealers, we are in no way related to ArcticCat/Textron in any way shape or form.

We try to explain everything as thorough as possible and hopefully avoid such conflicts, so please, help us by understanding things from our perspectives as well. We all try to understand others as well.

Thank You
Sincerely, Rusty
 

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I am so glad that Cat has decided to go this way. "Spring/Snow Check only". The last two new Cats I purchased where spring order. Prior to and when the new models where to come out I could purchase the exact same sled for $4,000 less. I realized and understood this when I spring ordered the sleds that I would lose out later but I accepted that. This is the same thing that happens when you purchase a new car or truck. Later, when the new models come out, your same vehicle has now been deeply discounted. With Cat doing this, ordering only, I believe this will go away. I hope this go's on in the future even when the prior year models get sold off.

If there is a particular model Cat you want, and will buy, I guarantee your dealer will find it and get it for you.

I also think Cat has something for everyone in 2020. Of course not everything but they have something for you in every category. Get it and make it yours.

Most important I hope for more dealers to come on board. I would like to see a dealer in just about every town. Kind of like the older days. They would not have to stock any sleds. They could have a few demo models on hand so you could see and feel them if they want. How can this not help with marketing, service of your sleds and selling of parts, garments & accessories. How nice would it be again to drive or walk just a little to see the Cat stuff or to have your Cat serviced, purchase new gear and supplies or have accessories put on. I don't see any downfall on this. Do you?
 

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No...If I was AC I would be pushing the "Snow Check" stuff hard. Snowmobiles are funny things. Get a bad winter and they're hard to sell, a good winter and they sell like crazy.

When I've bought new in the past I knew I was going to do so that spring and locked in. It seems to me that preseason sales might be the best way to keep the crazy prices in check. Building sleds you can only hope to sell can't be cheap.

Until I hear differently I'm chalking this year up to a painful correction, if things work out we will see the lineup fill out again next year. I do hope that at some point AC addresses this directly. I like companies being forthcoming. The sled business is an odd one, one that if we're being honest doesn't really need to exist, so I can swallow an odd year if it mean the brand stays around.

K
 

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Let me premise this by saying I'm not buying a new machine this year, the TZ1 still does what it needs to do even though a new Pantera would be nice. The TZ1 is paid for.

The whole lineup seems odd but if AC was flooding dealerships I can see them trying to correct the inventory issue. I agree that some other stuff must be in the pipeline though, the lineup just seem so sparse.

If I was buy a new machine it would be a 7000 even with some of the warts I've been reading about recently. I just don't need/want a 9000 and I'm not into 2-Strokes anymore. While they've cleaned up their acts considerably since the last one I owned the smell just doesn't do it for me.

All that being said I rode the last few days in Aroostook county and I would say 90% of the new machines out on the trails were sporting the largest engines their manufacture offers. It's crazy, it wasn't that long ago that if you saw a Thundercat (or what have you) it was of note, you told your buddies about it, now everyone drives them, EVERYONE!

I also noticed a lot more older machines this year. We were sporting an '05 T660 Touring and an '09 TZ1. There were lots of Twin Spars, ZRs first gen Revs etc. I think a lot of families just can't keep a stable of new machines, I know we can't. We still had a lot of fun though!

K
I have to agree with you. I'm not into 2 stokes anymore either. I have had them all my life until recently and do not want to go back. The 4 strokes are way more reliable, quiet and no smell that fills the clothes closet at home. I plan to keep my Pantera for a long time to come and times are changing so fast now that manufacturers have to alter their offerings and promote what they have. Cat has never pushed the 7000 and 3000 and offered a very large confusing list of models that made it confusing for the few buyers that exist out there. This market is shrinking due to new sleds being priced out of the average persons budget. I hope all the manufacturers start offering a small lineup that is reliable, covers trail, touring, high performance and of course entry level. They need to be priced reasonably and supported properly. I think that would eliminate the level of unsold units. I believe Textron owned AC is looking into the future and getting setup ahead of the rest. Sad but true.
 

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I have to agree with you. I'm not into 2 stokes anymore either. I have had them all my life until recently and do not want to go back. The 4 strokes are way more reliable, quiet and no smell that fills the clothes closet at home. I plan to keep my Pantera for a long time to come and times are changing so fast now that manufacturers have to alter their offerings and promote what they have. Cat has never pushed the 7000 and 3000 and offered a very large confusing list of models that made it confusing for the few buyers that exist out there. This market is shrinking due to new sleds being priced out of the average persons budget. I hope all the manufacturers start offering a small lineup that is reliable, covers trail, touring, high performance and of course entry level. They need to be priced reasonably and supported properly. I think that would eliminate the level of unsold units. I believe Textron owned AC is looking into the future and getting setup ahead of the rest. Sad but true.
The new Ctec two strokes have no smell, are reliable and get pretty much the same MPG as the four strokes but are more fun to ride because they are easier to toss around. Oh and the new Two strokes are very quiet as well. No going back. Just ahead.
 

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The new Ctec two strokes have no smell, are reliable and get pretty much the same MPG as the four strokes but are more fun to ride because they are easier to toss around. Oh and the new Two strokes are very quiet as well. No going back. Just ahead.
True, the CTec 2 technology has come a long way. Just like the outboards from Merc and BRP. It's just once you have experienced the 4 stroke running quality in a touring or general trail riding situation, it is hard to go back. It's like having a new Jeep Wrangler, you can't go back to a car based SUV.

Now if your strictly a hard core high performance rider, sure the Ctec 2 would be the better choice IMO.:wink
 

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The new Ctec two strokes have no smell, are reliable and get pretty much the same MPG as the four strokes but are more fun to ride because they are easier to toss around. Oh and the new Two strokes are very quiet as well. No going back. Just ahead.
They still have a little smell, no where near as bad as the old days but I can tell when one's in front of me.

Truth be told I could probably go back to a 600 and be happy. The sound is much more mellow, the smell tolerable and the MPG respectable. I'm getting old. :)

That being said given the choice I would go 4-Stroke. Everyone is different, it's just what I prefer.

K
 

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They still have a little smell, no where near as bad as the old days but I can tell when one's in front of me.

Truth be told I could probably go back to a 600 and be happy. The sound is much more mellow, the smell tolerable and the MPG respectable. I'm getting old. :)

That being said given the choice I would go 4-Stroke. Everyone is different, it's just what I prefer.

K

Having the chance to put significant miles on both back to back I would choose the 6000 any and every time over the 7000. It does everything better, and is quieter to boot.
 

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Having the chance to put significant miles on both back to back I would choose the 6000 any and every time over the 7000. It does everything better, and is quieter to boot.
Here is a good question for you. For example, when I need my car to go somewhere possibly could be as much as a 300 mile round trip, I think nothing of it as far as checking my plugs and oil and fluids etc. I am always confident that all is good since I checked it last and simple start it and drive off. I have never been able to do that with any snowmobile until the 4 stroke came out. It has been proven many times over that they can be as reliable as a car. So my question would be, what aspects of a snowmobile do you feel a 2 stroke is better at than a 4 stroke?
I already know they are faster except for the Yamaha sidewinder but for the kind of riding we do 90% of the time I have found just the opposite. Its just my opinion but I would like to dig into it a little more and get yours in more detail. thanks.I dunno
 

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Here is a good question for you. For example, when I need my car to go somewhere possibly could be as much as a 300 mile round trip, I think nothing of it as far as checking my plugs and oil and fluids etc. I am always confident that all is good since I checked it last and simple start it and drive off. I have never been able to do that with any snowmobile until the 4 stroke came out. It has been proven many times over that they can be as reliable as a car. So my question would be, what aspects of a snowmobile do you feel a 2 stroke is better at than a 4 stroke?
I already know they are faster except for the Yamaha sidewinder but for the kind of riding we do 90% of the time I have found just the opposite. Its just my opinion but I would like to dig into it a little more and get yours in more detail. thanks.I dunno
The past 30+ years of riding for me? Only checked injection tank level and topped off fuel tank.
All 2-strokes, never checked plugs prior to riding.

You must have had both shoulders being occupied by one of each, an angel and the opposite shoulder had to have been the devil.

I’ve never had those worries with my sleds during those times.

EDIT: How familiar are you with the issue of the first MY production SnoPro 500’s?
Those were PIG RICH mapping in their ECM’s for cold starting. So rich that if one wasn’t subjected to the reflash, and owner rode it, usually the third cold startup would take out the plugs.

Sure, the past several seasons I haven’t had a lot of time to ride (weather some years, personal injuries other seasons), however, the 500 I ride has its ORIGINAL SET OF PLUGS in it still. Never was subjected to the reflash (as I’ve seen enough “sleds” in my past decades as a tech, that have been, and have become either worse yet, or has affected them elsewhere in other regions of the engines operating rpms)

I do not check my spark plugs prior to riding, no matter the mileage anticipated.

You put any non-EFI system four stroke for comparison vs a carbed two stroke and see which one fouls plugs first (since the four strokes require MUCH RICHER cold weather fuel to air ratios to keep their healthy air ingestion happy until engine components become heat soaked enough to keep them happy without additional fuel being supplied.

Same as older carbed four stroke ATV’s, seen more fouled plugs from those in my years than ever with any two stroke carbed atv’s (equal amount of units witnessed per comparisons. and not lopsiding any numbers/facts here)
 

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The past 30+ years of riding for me? Only checked injection tank level and topped off fuel tank.
All 2-strokes, never checked plugs prior to riding.

You must have had both shoulders being occupied by one of each, an angel and the opposite shoulder had to have been the devil.

I’ve never had those worries with my sleds during those times.
He He, that's funny LOL. I guess that's a good way to put it. thanks and have a good day:wink
 

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Here is a good question for you. For example, when I need my car to go somewhere possibly could be as much as a 300 mile round trip, I think nothing of it as far as checking my plugs and oil and fluids etc. I am always confident that all is good since I checked it last and simple start it and drive off. I have never been able to do that with any snowmobile until the 4 stroke came out. It has been proven many times over that they can be as reliable as a car. So my question would be, what aspects of a snowmobile do you feel a 2 stroke is better at than a 4 stroke?
I already know they are faster except for the Yamaha sidewinder but for the kind of riding we do 90% of the time I have found just the opposite. Its just my opinion but I would like to dig into it a little more and get yours in more detail. thanks.I dunno
My 600 Ctec is good for about 600 miles before the oil needs adding. Checking plugs? I have not changed a plug on any cat on the trail since 1994 and my EXT EFI. That sled had some early issues. I add oil and fill my tank before most rides but I know I could do a saddle bag trip on one tank of oil.
 

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@Krom

Do you know if the engine changes to the 800 are fixing the flaming exhaust/melted side panel issues? Or are they simply there to make more power?

Thanks,

Chris
 

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I have to add my 2 cents and opinion on the 2 or 4 stroke discussion. I have always been a 2 stroke guy. I have ridden the 7000 and I must say that the new 8000 Ctec Cat engine is a beast and out does the 7000. My opinion of course. I have never been stranded on any of my 2 stroke Cats. Yes some smell more than others but I like the smell. I just add the required oil and gas then go. My opinion on the 4 stroke motors is they are more of a maintenance machine. I have been told changing oil in them is a mess and a pain. Will the 4 stroke last longer. Maybe but I've read that the 2 strokes can go over 10,000 miles before the top end MAY need attention.

My point is try one of the new 2 stroke Ctec cat engines. I believe you will be impressed.
 

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I don't mean to hijack this thread but my reason for going 4 stroke was reliability. All my 2 strokes required a lot of maintenance including some pretty serious stuff like pistons, crankshaft bearings, broken connecting rods etc. There was always someone in our group that broke down hindering the rest of the ride for that day. I always used to say, " I wish they would install a motorcycle engine in a sled as those go for 75K miles without having to open up the engine." So when AC came out with their 4 strokes, I wasn't expecting to run 75K miles but I was interested in anything that leaned toward that. I think of all the blown firecats, ZR's and wildcats and all my Polaris Indy's of the past and Fusions and Edge more recently and I am so thankful for my little 4 stroke. Been happy ever since chugging along enjoying some trouble free rides. It's just what I have been experiencing in my 45+ years on the trails.
 

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I don't mean to hijack this thread but my reason for going 4 stroke was reliability. All my 2 strokes required a lot of maintenance including some pretty serious stuff like pistons, crankshaft bearings, broken connecting rods etc. There was always someone in our group that broke down hindering the rest of the ride for that day. I always used to say, " I wish they would install a motorcycle engine in a sled as those go for 75K miles without having to open up the engine." So when AC came out with their 4 strokes, I wasn't expecting to run 75K miles but I was interested in anything that leaned toward that. I think of all the blown firecats, ZR's and wildcats and all my Polaris Indy's of the past and Fusions and Edge more recently and I am so thankful for my little 4 stroke. Been happy ever since chugging along enjoying some trouble free rides. It's just what I have been experiencing in my 45+ years on the trails.
It's not just the 2 stroke sled that may be the issue, but the rider on it. And if you bought a used sled, what kind of rider was on it before you got it. It's all in how it's taken care of and treated. And on your subject of plugs, in the 18 years I had my 93 Pantera, I changed the plugs twice and the second time was when I found out BR9EYA's were less prone to fouling so I figured why not try them. I think all engines have a place. I've got a fanner in a utility, 2 stroke liquid in the Sabercat, and a 4 stroke T660 Turbo Touring. And I tell you that 600 in the Sabercat sure sounds nice.
 

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@guudasitgets

Tony, I am supplying a list from the 2005/2006 season from a former “mom and pop” shop I worked for many years ago. This list is only one example of something I can personally guarantee in my backing of Krom’s comment concerning sleds going from one dealer to another (finding LOS)
.
Thanks Rusty
 
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