[wooza1]

Hi all,
Ive read some replies in my last post asking abt the 2004 V Twin 650, and it seems that its a good machine once the belt / limp mode is handled, but 1 reply stated there was a frame breaking issue? Can anyone tell me the details about this?
Does the frame break and then the machine is useless, or does Arctic Cat repair it, or is the cost on the owner, and what is the cost or is it basically junk if this frame issue happens?
The one Im looking at is a holdover and I want as much info so if this can be repaired under the warranty I want to make sure it can be. Any more detailed info regarding this frame problem would be VERY much appreciated.
I thank you all who've given me your opinions on this machine, but the reply I got regarding the frame was vague and now has me worried, so anyone with knowledge of this PLEASE clue me in as much as possible. Thanks a bunch folks! :thumbsup:

 

[A G]

There was a bad batch of frames that made it mostly to the 04 650s, some 500s, and even some early build '05 ATVs.

The fix was in a new alloy and a couple extra braces in the frame.

My 04 650 frame cracked, dealer replaced it under warranty, got it back in 10 days and has been zero problems ever since with just under 3000 on the odo now.

I would think that most cracked frame ATVs would've been replaced under warranty by now, and it can always be discovered if a dealer runs the VIN number for history.

My 3 year warranty just ran out this past December had the new frame for a year and a bit, no sign of problems. The date on the new frame is Nov /05, it's one of the new ones with the extra little brace pieces behind the airbox and the new allow. This new frame is the same as the latest Cats leaving the factory, of which there is no word about broken frames being common.

Like I said, by now, a Dealer should be able to tell you from the VIN history if the ATV in question has the new frame or not. Oh.... I believe there should be a little sticker on it on the left rear corner of the frame somewhere. That's where I found the date code on mine.

 

[Sanny651]

The frame issue isn't as bad/widespread as it sounds in my opinion. There are some that had frames crack on them, but compared to the number of 650's out there with no frame issues, I think the percentage is minimal. Some people welded the frame. If it happens under warranty, Cat replaces the frame with a brand new one (the same one they now use in the 06 models which is reinforced). It's not a big enough issue for me to deter me from buying one. In fact, I owned one!! Just sold it to get into an H1, but my V2 was a rock star!

 

[kevinbender0311]

well to some it might not be that big of a deal but you would want to definately keep a eye on it if it hasn't been replaced and has low hours/miles.
to me it would be something to seriously think about, espically if warrenty doesn't cover it, my best guess it would be a minimum of 500 just for labor to switch everything on to a new frame, or trust the welder that welds it.i have read that some like ag have gotten it fixed quick but a few others have a few months with there machine tied up at the dealer, without caring whos fault ie; dealer, ac, warrenty, it still is a long time with out the atv.

don't get me wrong the ac v2's are great machines (i own one 05)but to me a frame issue (if haven't been taken care of allready) would be steering me away from of a 04 v2.


just my 02$

 

[A G]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kevinbender0311 @ Jan 7 2007, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

well to some it might not be that big of a deal but you would want to definately keep a eye on it if it hasn't been replaced and has low hours/miles.
to me it would be something to seriously think about, espically if warrenty doesn't cover it, my best guess it would be a minimum of 500 just for labor to switch everything on to a new frame, or trust the welder that welds it.i have read that some like ag have gotten it fixed quick but a few others have a few months with there machine tied up at the dealer, without caring whos fault ie; dealer, ac, warrenty, it still is a long time with out the atv.

don't get me wrong the ac v2's are great machines (i own one 05)but to me a frame issue (if haven't been taken care of allready) would be steering me away from of a 04 v2.


just my 02$[/b]

That's exactly it... If the frame has been replaced with the new one, there's no need to worry.

The thing is, all you have to do is find out and know in advance.... Get a dealer to do a history search with the VIN of the ATV in question.

If it shows the frame has been replaced, you'll know the frame is as good as the 05, 06, 07 models.

I was only without the ATV for one weekend... 10 days total at the dealer.

My dealer said there were no issues or backorder troubles getting the frame to Canada. Yet at the same time, others at ArcticChat were telling horror stories of how they've been without an ATV for a month or two waiting for the frame replacement to get done.

Unacceptable, because it means getting the job done just wasted a couple months worth of expensive warranty time the customer paid for up front when the ATV was purchased. bang your head

 

[theshonk]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sanny651 @ Jan 7 2007, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The frame issue isn't as bad/widespread as it sounds in my opinion. In fact, I owned one!! Just sold it to get into an H1, but my V2 was a rock star![/b]

The frame issue is HUGE. There should have been a recall for inspections at minimum. (Ford did a similar thing with the Pinto)

Arctic Cat decided to forgo the safety of their customers. There are many low miles units out there a ticking time bomb.

I do agree with your “Rock Star” analogy since most are over paid, gangsters’ and dopers.


[attachment=59995:commancheo_shonk.jpg]

 

[Sanny651]

Kevin, AG and Shonk all bring up good points. I don't think it's as major (widespread) of a deal as one would think, however it shouldn't be discounted either. It's something to look at/for, but not something that would make me not purchase the quad. It's about $500 for a new frame (just the frame). Some have welded it too with success. I too think they should have done a recall. In my estimation, it shouldn't be a huge problem before something is recalled.

If the frame does break, I have not heard of anyone having crashes or anything as a result. On the contrary actually...people that find out typically do so when they are cleaning their ATV or inspecting it.

 

[theshonk]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sanny651 @ Jan 8 2007, 09:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Kevin, AG and Shonk all bring up good points. I don't think it's as major (widespread) of a deal as one would think, however it shouldn't be discounted either. It's something to look at/for, but not something that would make me not purchase the quad. It's about $500 for a new frame (just the frame). Some have welded it too with success. I too think they should have done a recall. In my estimation, it shouldn't be a huge problem before something is recalled.

If the frame does break, I have not heard of anyone having crashes or anything as a result. On the contrary actually...people that find out typically do so when they are cleaning their ATV or inspecting it.[/b]

• I don't think it's as major (widespread) of a deal as one would think,

Every machine manufacture in that specific batch is defected. Error on the side of the customer.

• however it shouldn't be discounted either

Sounds like you’re running for office

• It's something to look at/for, but not something that would make me not purchase the quad.

This is close to what Arctic Cat is doing waiting and hoping . You could have a point IF it was a point of inspection in the manual ie NOTE FRAME IS SUPJECT TO FAILURE OWNER IS RESPONIBLE TO INSPECT AND ASURE FRAME IS IN ACCITABE CONDITION etc. Also on the show room floor the dealer could point out the areas that where cracks are common.

• It's about $500 for a new frame (just the frame).

Frame $672 + tax + shipping the labor effort is titanic the machine has to be totally dis-reassembled . In addition there are numerous fasteners and an assortment of items that will be needed. Few people or dealers have the capability to do this job right the 1^st time.

• Some have welded it too with success.

To correctly weld the noted frame would be economically impossible and the liability is unacceptable. Most people would just use a small local shop or do it themselves. Few have the expertise to weld thin wall tubing properly.

• If the frame does break, I have not heard of anyone having crashes or anything as a result. On the contrary actually...people that find out typically do so when they are cleaning their ATV or inspecting it.In my estimation, it shouldn't be a huge problem before something is recalled.

????????????????????????
Sorry to be so hard on you but you have accepted a position of responsibly. Members look to you for leadership not to glaze over issues with AC. The question you should ask is would you take the same approach if the frame problem was a issue with one of Arctic Cat’s competitors?


[attachment=60137:supershonk.jpg]

 

[theshonk]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (acquad700 @ Jan 9 2007, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (theshonk @ Jan 8 2007, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sanny651 @ Jan 7 2007, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The frame issue isn't as bad/widespread as it sounds in my opinion. In fact, I owned one!! Just sold it to get into an H1, but my V2 was a rock star![/b]

The frame issue is HUGE. There should have been a recall for inspections at minimum. (Ford did a similar thing with the Pinto)

Arctic Cat decided to forgo the safety of their customers. There are many low miles units out there a ticking time bomb.

I do agree with your "Rock Star" analogy since most are over paid, gangsters' and dopers.


[attachment=59995:commancheo_shonk.jpg]
[/b][/quote]

/rant on :angry:



I still love my cat though!
[/b][/quote]

Then we look at each other and wonder what happen to all our manufacturing jobs.

[attachment=60239:supershonk.jpg]




Ps I love my Cat too :thumbsup:

 

[Sanny651]

I guess I'll retort with this. I responded to this question with an opinion, which is the only way it could be answered. If someone feels the need to twist my responses by breaking it down sentence by sentence and contort the known intended meaning of my statements, that's on them, not me. I regurgitated information from others with regards to frame costs and welding...people that have gone through this frame situation. For the record, a new frame is $572 on Alpha Sports...I think that qualifies under the "roughly $500" statement I made, don't you?

Lastly, it's my OPINION that if it were truly a huge epidemic, in this sue happy society some class action suit would have already been in the works and some lawyer would be salivating right now. I haven't heard of one to date...have you?

I haven't read a single post of someone crashing where it was due to a cracked frame. I haven't read a single post where someone found the crack other then when they were inspecting the bike or doing maintenance. If you can find something to the contrary, I'd love to read it.

Yes, I would be as objective with other manu's as I would Cat. My Cat had it's downsides as well as upsides. It's not the perfect quad for everyone, and I've stated that many times before. I'm not drinking the AC KoolAid Shonk. I guess I expected more from a member such as yourself that has read my numerous posts calling out the pro's AND con's to Cat's, especially the V2 (see my pinned post by the way).

Lastly, allow me to clarify your misconception of my responsibilities as a mod. We are here to maintain the peace (so to speak), filter through posts to ensure that they are clean and "family" orientated, and keep members from making beligerant or otherwise degrading posts. What we are NOT here for is to be lawyers, require engineering degree in metal fabrication or be someone who instructs others what to do with their personal decisions. If that were the case, we would not have forums with open discussion, but rather an "Ask the Expert" type layout (in which case I would no longer be a mod as I'm no expert). The fact of the matter is that we are just members like you who are charged with maintaining order. I'm sorry if you misunderstood, but that is our role. I hope this clarifies things for you.

 

[modn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sanny651 @ Jan 10 2007, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I guess I'll retort with this. I responded to this question with an opinion, which is the only way it could be answered. If someone feels the need to twist my responses by breaking it down sentence by sentence and contort the known intended meaning of my statements, that's on them, not me. I regurgitated information from others with regards to frame costs and welding...people that have gone through this frame situation. For the record, a new frame is $572 on Alpha Sports...I think that qualifies under the "roughly $500" statement I made, don't you?

Lastly, it's my OPINION that if it were truly a huge epidemic, in this sue happy society some class action suit would have already been in the works and some lawyer would be salivating right now. I haven't heard of one to date...have you?

I haven't read a single post of someone crashing where it was due to a cracked frame. I haven't read a single post where someone found the crack other then when they were inspecting the bike or doing maintenance. If you can find something to the contrary, I'd love to read it.

Yes, I would be as objective with other manu's as I would Cat. My Cat had it's downsides as well as upsides. It's not the perfect quad for everyone, and I've stated that many times before. I'm not drinking the AC KoolAid Shonk. I guess I expected more from a member such as yourself that has read my numerous posts calling out the pro's AND con's to Cat's, especially the V2 (see my pinned post by the way).

Lastly, allow me to clarify your misconception of my responsibilities as a mod. We are here to maintain the peace (so to speak), filter through posts to ensure that they are clean and "family" orientated, and keep members from making beligerant or otherwise degrading posts. What we are NOT here for is to be lawyers, require engineering degree in metal fabrication or be someone who instructs others what to do with their personal decisions. If that were the case, we would not have forums with open discussion, but rather an "Ask the Expert" type layout (in which case I would no longer be a mod as I'm no expert). The fact of the matter is that we are just members like you who are charged with maintaining order. I'm sorry if you misunderstood, but that is our role. I hope this clarifies things for you.[/b]

I was going to reply yesterday, but asked myself why......you took the words right out of my mouth. :thumbsup:

 

[A G]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sanny651 @ Jan 10 2007, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I guess I'll retort with this. I responded to this question with an opinion, which is the only way it could be answered. If someone feels the need to twist my responses by breaking it down sentence by sentence and contort the known intended meaning of my statements, that's on them, not me. I regurgitated information from others with regards to frame costs and welding...people that have gone through this frame situation. For the record, a new frame is $572 on Alpha Sports...I think that qualifies under the "roughly $500" statement I made, don't you?

Lastly, it's my OPINION that if it were truly a huge epidemic, in this sue happy society some class action suit would have already been in the works and some lawyer would be salivating right now. I haven't heard of one to date...have you?

I haven't read a single post of someone crashing where it was due to a cracked frame. I haven't read a single post where someone found the crack other then when they were inspecting the bike or doing maintenance. If you can find something to the contrary, I'd love to read it.

Yes, I would be as objective with other manu's as I would Cat. My Cat had it's downsides as well as upsides. It's not the perfect quad for everyone, and I've stated that many times before. I'm not drinking the AC KoolAid Shonk. I guess I expected more from a member such as yourself that has read my numerous posts calling out the pro's AND con's to Cat's, especially the V2 (see my pinned post by the way).

Lastly, allow me to clarify your misconception of my responsibilities as a mod. We are here to maintain the peace (so to speak), filter through posts to ensure that they are clean and "family" orientated, and keep members from making beligerant or otherwise degrading posts. What we are NOT here for is to be lawyers, require engineering degree in metal fabrication or be someone who instructs others what to do with their personal decisions. If that were the case, we would not have forums with open discussion, but rather an "Ask the Expert" type layout (in which case I would no longer be a mod as I'm no expert). The fact of the matter is that we are just members like you who are charged with maintaining order. I'm sorry if you misunderstood, but that is our role. I hope this clarifies things for you.[/b]

Good stuff Sanny! :thumbsup:

I'm sorry if members think my comments 'don't belong', Sanny has said it all so maybe I should've kept the following to myself. My apologies.

It's not targeting anyone, it's just a general statement from observation.
_____________________________________________

I think sometimes members forget that we mods are members too... What I'm getting at is that us mods come here to post and mingle in discussion just like everyone else! That is the main reason I visit ArcticChat... To post like a member, to 'chat' with you guys. :site: :chug:

The times a mod's opinions become the final say is when we have no choice but to do the job of moderation.

Everything else is just our opinions, no more or less valid than any other' member's opinions. After all, nothing at ArcticChat officially/legally represents Arctic Cat (or any manufacturer) in any way.

We help with advice if we can, but if we can't, it would be unfair to hold it against us just because we're ArcticChat VOLUNTEER staff as well as members. It's not always easy, but we still 'work' for free!

No biggie though, the vast majority of comments from members about ArcticChat staff is overall positive. On behalf of ArcticChat staff, I'd like to thank all of you for your kind words.

:chug:
_____________________________________________

Posting as a member:

Yes, my frame has been replaced, and it's no longer a problem. The frames used for replacement have an improved alloy that resists cracking because it is more flexible. This new alloy is used in mid-season released 05 models and newer.

Welding will fix the crack, but ultimately the alloy of the rest of the frame is still not as good as the new alloy used in newer ATVs. This is why I believe people seeking answers to the frame issue of an ATV that could be from the affected period should have their dealers check the VIN history. A used 04 may have a perfectly fine frame in it because it was replaced. Knowing will remove doubt & worry.

One thing has become painfully clear from owning any vehicle type over the years... There is no such thing as a perfect vehicle. Or any other product for that matter. On every one there has been something that did or could fail, or wear quicker than I liked, or a feature built/designed in such a way that I did not agree with. I've found that all brands, vehicles, products, have this in common.

Because I now know that, I don't expect 100% perfection that is not going to happen. So I focus on the merits I do like.

From what I've seen on the trails, I'm not going to switch to a different brand because of any problem unless the problem wasn't taken care of to my satisfaction. I want Cat's superior suspension. I want Cat's superior ground clearance. I want and get from Cat what the others don't have.

My friend & riding buddy Houleigan knew all about the frame issue on the 04 model. What did he do? He bought a brand new leftover 04. If the frame cracks, he'll get it replaced and put it behind him just like I did. At the end of the day he will be like me... Happy with his Cat.

Sorry for the long ramble folks! :chug:

 

[wooza1]

Ok,
Now that all the dust has settled, can someone please tell me where the frames crack, and under what circumstances. It's a holdover 04 so Im sure it hasnt been replaced but w/ a 6 month warranty I want to be able to check it where it fails so when / if it does I can get it repaired w/ no out of pocket expense. Also has anyone owned one of these that didnt have this issue? Let me know where to look, and what circumstances cause the crack / break along w/ any other details regarding this issue NOT about Fords, Chevy's Sunbeam Blenders or anything else that has no bearing on this. Thx

 

[A G]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wooza1 @ Jan 10 2007, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Ok,
Now that all the dust has settled, can someone please tell me where the frames crack, and under what circumstances. It's a holdover 04 so Im sure it hasnt been replaced but w/ a 6 month warranty I want to be able to check it where it fails so when / if it does I can get it repaired w/ no out of pocket expense. Also has anyone owned one of these that didnt have this issue? Let me know where to look, and what circumstances cause the crack / break along w/ any other details regarding this issue NOT about Fords, Chevy's Sunbeam Blenders or anything else that has no bearing on this. Thx[/b]

Right behind the airbox seems to be most common. On many of them, the welds crack on the big flat stamped sheet metal welded across the top of the frame behind the airbox.

A lot of others have had the frame tubes crack next to these welds. And some have had the lower frame tubes crack just ahead of the engine. Then there's a few that have had cracks in both these areas and other places too!

This is why I don't agree with welding a frame with the crack-prone alloy... You can weld a failure, but in the future it can still crack somewhere else.

 

[modn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wooza1 @ Jan 10 2007, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Ok,
Now that all the dust has settled, can someone please tell me where the frames crack, and under what circumstances. It's a holdover 04 so Im sure it hasnt been replaced but w/ a 6 month warranty I want to be able to check it where it fails so when / if it does I can get it repaired w/ no out of pocket expense. Also has anyone owned one of these that didnt have this issue? Let me know where to look, and what circumstances cause the crack / break along w/ any other details regarding this issue NOT about Fords, Chevy's Sunbeam Blenders or anything else that has no bearing on this. Thx[/b]

Many people own them without frame issues. It is just that people usually say something when it is wrong and you never hear from the ones that it didn't happen to. I have never had an issue and know of many that have not either.

 

[Sanny651]

No issues here after 781+ miles on 'er.

Modn makes an excellent point. You typically only hear the bad, rarely the good and that's with any business/forum.

 

[theshonk]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sanny651 @ Jan 10 2007, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

No issues here after 781+ miles on 'er.

Modn makes an excellent point. You typically only hear the bad, rarely the good and that's with any business/forum.[/b]

This form must not typical most postings are positive. It’s not a bad idea to stir things up once in awhile. It can lead to creativity :thumbsup:
[attachment=60357:supershonk.jpg]

 

[Sanny651]

100% agree Shonk. Bringing up ideas or even disagreeing with someone is cool, as like you said it gets the creative juices flowing anda lot of good can come of it. We just need to ensure that it's not at the expense of someone else. I've done it myself in the past and have actively tried to curb those kinds of responses. If it's a factual difference, then stating the person is wrong is fine.

Say, for instance, if someone asks if the H1 has a Kawi engine the answer is no...no gray area about it. However, if it's an opinion, then we need to remind ourselves that our opinion is just that...not a fact, and that others are entitled to their opinions as much as we are to ours. Again, debate is good and actually healthy IMO, but it must be done propely otherwise it just becomes another type of post/thread that you find on one of those "other ATV sites" <ahem>. We try to make sure this site stands apart from those other sites, which I think we do.

 

[ArcticDad]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sanny651 @ Jan 11 2007, 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

100% agree Shonk. Bringing up ideas or even disagreeing with someone is cool, as like you said it gets the creative juices flowing anda lot of good can come of it. We just need to ensure that it's not at the expense of someone else. I've done it myself in the past and have actively tried to curb those kinds of responses. If it's a factual difference, then stating the person is wrong is fine.

Say, for instance, if someone asks if the H1 has a Kawi engine the answer is no...no gray area about it. However, if it's an opinion, then we need to remind ourselves that our opinion is just that...not a fact, and that others are entitled to their opinions as much as we are to ours. Again, debate is good and actually healthy IMO, but it must be done propely otherwise it just becomes another type of post/thread that you find on one of those "other ATV sites" <ahem>. We try to make sure this site stands apart from those other sites, which I think we do.[/b]

Oh come on Todd! Get off your high horse and just admit it - you're full of it!

slaphappy

 

[theshonk]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sanny651 @ Jan 11 2007, 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

100% agree Shonk. Bringing up ideas or even disagreeing with someone is cool, as like you said it gets the creative juices flowing anda lot of good can come of it. We just need to ensure that it's not at the expense of someone else. I've done it myself in the past and have actively tried to curb those kinds of responses. If it's a factual difference, then stating the person is wrong is fine.

Say, for instance, if someone asks if the H1 has a Kawi engine the answer is no...no gray area about it. However, if it's an opinion, then we need to remind ourselves that our opinion is just that...not a fact, and that others are entitled to their opinions as much as we are to ours. Again, debate is good and actually healthy IMO, but it must be done propely otherwise it just becomes another type of post/thread that you find on one of those "other ATV sites" <ahem>. We try to make sure this site stands apart from those other sites, which I think we do.[/b]

If I had landed outside the guidelines I would have been PM and warned. So I agree with Arctic Dad. (He must know you naughty ) slaphappy


[attachment=60483:supershonk.jpg]

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If I have landed outside the guidelines I would have been PM and warned. So I agree with Arctic Dad.