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My z440 fan cooled has started knocking after riding it today. This is my first time posting for help. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQxxMqZqc_s9] I made a video for it its really bad at lower rpms. I'm not sure if its the crank. Pistons looked really good for 6600 miles on it. Any help would be appreciated on what it could be.
 

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I hate that don't you... those usually cost you big $$$. Can be some spectacular footage when it blows if caught on video though. Methanol motor explosions seem to provide the most breathtaking action for me... especially one of my own.

First thing I would suspect is something in the primary clutch has/is coming apart. But from here its not my call. Should be pretty easy to find though, with all that racket going on.

Have a great holiday regardless,
 

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When you looked at pistons did you look at all of the piston or just the tops? That's a lot of miles for a piston in that motor I would think. You may have a cracked piston skirt. May also be a clutch. Turn it by hand and see if you can locate any noises.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
When you looked at pistons did you look at all of the piston or just the tops? That's a lot of miles for a piston in that motor I would think. You may have a cracked piston skirt. May also be a clutch. Turn it by hand and see if you can locate any noises.
. I looked at tops. Lot of carbon other then that I didn't take off or look more then that. I did spin the clutch and there is play where It connect to crankshaft, also a metallic scratching noise. I looked on cylinder walls nothing wrong or anything I'll probably look closer soon in shop. Maybe a crankshaft bearing?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I hate that don't you... those usually cost you big $$$. Can be some spectacular footage when it blows if caught on video though. Methanol motor explosions seem to provide the most breathtaking action for me... especially one of my own.

First thing I would suspect is something in the primary clutch has/is coming apart. But from here its not my call. Should be pretty easy to find though, with all that racket going on.

Have a great holiday regardless,
I hope it something simple but probably not. Never really replaced anything in an engine before. It might be the clitch. My secondary clutch came unbolted or more like broke off. But the is tight now. I don't know much about clutch either. It makes the noise as well when I pull start. Happy holidays as well.
 

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With 6600 miles on the sled it probably needs a freshening of both of the clutches AND the motor. In other words, fixing a single knocking problem at this point isn't likely to get you very far.

Start at the top end on the motor... you can plan on a fresh honing, putting new pistons, rings, wrist pins, upper rod bearings, circlips and gaskets in it, at the minimum. The lower end may need new crank seals at a minimum. Bearings too, or possibly worse... but you gotta get down there before you'll know for sure.

Pull the heads and cylinders for upper end inspection and go from there.

As for the clutches, they will probably both need to be completely rebuilt unless they have been well maintained and/or recently freshened. Look for cracks developing on your primary sheaves and replace the clutch if you find any.

Let us know what you find,
 

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Please don't take my comments above as doom and gloom. You can freshen your motor and clutches for a lot less money than you may be thinking... and the work is not very difficult.

Its fun to make things better than they were. When you get done you know what you got too, versus replacing it with an unknown used sled or buying an expensive new sled.

If you need help you can count on getting it, so hang in there.
 

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Since I'm hogging your thread already tonight, here is another possible idea for the source of that racket. Supporting your fan shaft there are two sealed ball bearings, #5 in the parts fiche below, that may be shot. Pull the tin shroud off and yank on that bugger before going any further:



If one or both of them has come apart it can make an awful racket... just like yours is making and is cheap and easy to fix.

OK, time to run off and perform santa tasks... outta here.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
With 6600 miles on the sled it probably needs a freshening of both of the clutches AND the motor. In other words, fixing a single knocking problem at this point isn't likely to get you very far.

Start at the top end on the motor... you can plan on a fresh honing, putting new pistons, rings, wrist pins, upper rod bearings, circlips and gaskets in it, at the minimum. The lower end may need new crank seals at a minimum. Bearings too, or possibly worse... but you gotta get down there before you'll know for sure.

Pull the heads and cylinders for upper end inspection and go from there.

As for the clutches, they will probably both need to be completely rebuilt unless they have been well maintained and/or recently freshened. Look for cracks developing on your primary sheaves and replace the clutch if you find any.

Let us know what you find,
Well, I took the engine out after our holiday dinner and the pistons look great and so do the cylinders, Besides a lot of carbon build up which I can get rid of. Looked down into the crank and I saw that where the connecting rod connects to the shaft one side would move a whole inch before the rest of the crankshaft which would be 16 and 17 on the picture. I would have to say that is the issue. Which I am not sure if I would have to get a new rod or replace that single part or what would be better. I was looking at cranks and some are around 200 to 300. Other then that i notice my clutch seems to look like rust pit or chips in it where the belt runs. Is that common? seemed to happen this year too.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Would a 98 jag 340 crank work in my 95 Z440 or would I have too look for exact same. The 340 was fan cooled which the part number is 3005-350. Would it be an issue if at all if it was a 340 even. They look the same.
 

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I think its a different crank. Different part numbers.
 

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While scrounging around fLEEbay last night, I saw a couple used crankcases with the crankshaft still in them, priced less or close to the same price for bare used cranks.

Don't take this as a recommendation for any of those fLEEbay sellers stuff, cause its not... but you may be able to get the entire assembly for less than the price of a used crank locally or online and save yourself quite a bit of work.

I see most of the crank rebuilders out there want a fortune to rebuild a crank.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
While scrounging around fLEEbay last night, I saw a couple used crankcases with the crankshaft still in them, priced less or close to the same price for bare used cranks.

Don't take this as a recommendation for any of those fLEEbay sellers stuff, cause its not... but you may be able to get the entire assembly for less than the price of a used crank locally or online and save yourself quite a bit of work.

I see most of the crank rebuilders out there want a fortune to rebuild a crank.
I know some cranks are interchangeable to certain extact from what overnight reading and ya I'd rather not spend 300 on a crank to be rebuilt. I'm not that loaded with cash to pour a lot into it. It's my first self owned sled. It's also 21 years old and had rough owner before me. I might go with a used one that had fewer miles and clean the cylinders and pistons along with a new clutch rebuild kit looking at 300 for all that including gaskets other then that there is a crank from a 340 jag which I won't try. I'll probably get a newer sled down the road. Thanks for all the assistance. Happy New year
 

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Yeah, you are in a tough spot given the age and miles on the sled. Here is the interchange list from BLW for the crankshaft assembly sans the crank seal (#14 in the parts fiche) on the PTO end.

Part Number: 3004-875
CRANKSHAFT ASSY - Check Pricing
Replaces 3002-838
Replaces 3003-169
Replaces 3003-296
Replaces 3004-354
Replaces 3004-743

2001 MOUNTAIN CAT 600 VEV - CRANKCASE ASSEMBLY
1996 BEARCAT 440 - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1996 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1996 JAG DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1996 PANTHER DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1996 Z 440 - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1995 BEARCAT 440 - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1995 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1995 JAG DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1995 PANTHER DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1995 PANTHER RENTAL - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1995 Z 440 - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1994 CHEETAH 440 1-SPEED - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1994 CHEETAH 440 2-SPEED - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1994 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1994 JAG DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1994 JAG Z - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1994 PANTHER DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 JAG AFS LT 1 SPEED - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 JAG AFS LT 2 SPEED - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 JAG DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 JAG Z - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 PANTHER DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 JAG AFS LT 1 SPEED - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 JAG AFS LT 2 SPEED - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 JAG DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 JAG SPECIAL - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 PANTHER DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 SUPER JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 JAG AFS - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 JAG AFS DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 JAG AFS LONG TRACK - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 JAG AFS SPECIAL - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 PANTHER DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 PANTHER MOUNTAIN CAT - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 SUPER JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1990 JAG AFS - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1990 JAG AFS DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1990 JAG AFS LT - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1990 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1990 PANTHER MOUNTAIN CAT - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1990 SUPER JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1989 JAG AFS - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1989 PANTHER (440 F/C) - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1989 SUPER JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1988 JAG (440 F/C) - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1988 SUPER JAG (440) - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1987 JAG 440 - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1987 SUPER JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1986 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1985 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1985 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1984 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1981 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1981 JAG L/T - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1981 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1981 PANTHER WEST - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1981 TRAIL CAT - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1980 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1980 TRAIL CAT 4000 - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
Best wishes,
 

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I just watched the vid. Is that how you run the sled normally? Looks like you're missing the upper shroud ducting. You won't get as much cooling with the fan without that shroud.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yeah, you are in a tough spot given the age and miles on the sled. Here is the interchange list from BLW for the crankshaft assembly sans the crank seal (#14 in the parts fiche) on the PTO end.

Part Number: 3004-875
CRANKSHAFT ASSY - Check Pricing
Replaces 3002-838
Replaces 3003-169
Replaces 3003-296
Replaces 3004-354
Replaces 3004-743

2001 MOUNTAIN CAT 600 VEV - CRANKCASE ASSEMBLY
1996 BEARCAT 440 - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1996 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1996 JAG DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1996 PANTHER DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1996 Z 440 - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1995 BEARCAT 440 - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1995 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1995 JAG DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1995 PANTHER DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1995 PANTHER RENTAL - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1995 Z 440 - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1994 CHEETAH 440 1-SPEED - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1994 CHEETAH 440 2-SPEED - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1994 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1994 JAG DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1994 JAG Z - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1994 PANTHER DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 JAG AFS LT 1 SPEED - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 JAG AFS LT 2 SPEED - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 JAG DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 JAG Z - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1993 PANTHER DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 JAG AFS LT 1 SPEED - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 JAG AFS LT 2 SPEED - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 JAG DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 JAG SPECIAL - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 PANTHER DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1992 SUPER JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 JAG AFS - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 JAG AFS DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 JAG AFS LONG TRACK - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 JAG AFS SPECIAL - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 PANTHER DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 PANTHER MOUNTAIN CAT - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1991 SUPER JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1990 JAG AFS - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1990 JAG AFS DELUXE - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1990 JAG AFS LT - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1990 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1990 PANTHER MOUNTAIN CAT - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1990 SUPER JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1989 JAG AFS - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1989 PANTHER (440 F/C) - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1989 SUPER JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1988 JAG (440 F/C) - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1988 SUPER JAG (440) - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1987 JAG 440 - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1987 SUPER JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1986 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1985 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1985 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1984 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1981 JAG - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1981 JAG L/T - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1981 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1981 PANTHER WEST - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1981 TRAIL CAT - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1980 PANTHER - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
1980 TRAIL CAT 4000 - PISTON AND CRANKSHAFT
Best wishes,
thank you that helps a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I just watched the vid. Is that how you run the sled normally? Looks like you're missing the upper shroud ducting. You won't get as much cooling with the fan without that shroud.
No I took it off. I have shroud for it and everything. It's also been in the 15°F. Was looking to see if a bolt came out and was making that noise.
 
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