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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,I Received a 72 400 eXt ( woot free no doubt) anyway what's the deal on this should it have a red tag on the engine or not (it's black) the guy I got it from insists it's the original motor.V.I.N is 2108674 The Bad is there's no track, or pipes & snuffers-the hood is fair/needs some work. gauges are all good/with a little fade. crappy picture, it reads " TIA400FIA the A is like it was stamped on the tag the others are smooth. any ideas? maybe a 72/w a 71 motor??
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Fan cooled???? it's a free air, the vin is from the tunnel.The motor # Is T1A52 023066. there is a 3 digit sticker above the motor tag i think it says 180 kinda worn hard to make out the last digit.
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Automag @ May 5 2010, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Hi,I Received a 72 400 eXt for ( woot free no doubt) anyway what's the deal on this should it have a red tag on the engine or not (it's black) the guy I got it from insists it's the original motor.V.I.N is 2108674 The Bad is there's no track, or pipes & snuffers-the hood is fair/needs some work. gauges are all good/with a little fade. crappy picture, it reads " TIA400FIA the A is like it was stamped on the tag the others are smooth. any ideas? maybe a 72/w a 71 motor??[/b]
Yup, 72 with a 71 EXT motor.
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Invader440 @ May 6 2010, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Automag @ May 5 2010, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi,I Received a 72 400 eXt for ( woot free no doubt) anyway what's the deal on this should it have a red tag on the engine or not (it's black) the guy I got it from insists it's the original motor.V.I.N is 2108674 The Bad is there's no track, or pipes & snuffers-the hood is fair/needs some work. gauges are all good/with a little fade. crappy picture, it reads " TIA400FIA the A is like it was stamped on the tag the others are smooth. any ideas? maybe a 72/w a 71 motor??[/b]
Yup, 72 with a 71 EXT motor.
[/b][/quote]
I am pretty sure that some(maybe all) of the 72 440cc EXT engines were black tagged. Im not sure if a 400cc was but anything is possible. never say never with Cat ;-)
Either way, its a great find and a cool sled. If you want to make it "legit," buy a red tag online and replace the black one.
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Automag @ May 5 2010, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Hi,I Received a 72 400 eXt for ( woot free no doubt) anyway what's the deal on this should it have a red tag on the engine or not (it's black) the guy I got it from insists it's the original motor.V.I.N is 2108674 The Bad is there's no track, or pipes & snuffers-the hood is fair/needs some work. gauges are all good/with a little fade. crappy picture, it reads " TIA400FIA the A is like it was stamped on the tag the others are smooth. any ideas? maybe a 72/w a 71 motor??[/b]
where are you located? I may have the parts you are looking for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm located about a hour north of the twin cities, 40 minutes from st cloud. what parts do you have & how much? :D thanks.
 

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All the 1972 EXT twins are red tagged. There are significant differences in the porting and compression between the 1971 Black Tag T1A400F1A and the 1972 Red Tag T1A400RS1A race engines. Arctic Enterprise serial numbers give the model year by the first digit. So yes the chassis is a 1972. What you have is a 1971 engine in a 1972 chassis. If you could find the model number sticker on the tunnel, that could be interpreted as to what size engine is supposed to be in it. Sadly these often fall off with old age. I've got all the parts manuals and some shop data for the old EXT racers and I often give away copies when asked nicely. We need to save these beauties from the crusher, as the 1972's were one of Cats winningest racers ever and begat the El-Tigre and Jag trail sleds that we all grew up riding.
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gbarchives-eltigre @ May 11 2010, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
All the 1972 EXT twins are red tagged.[/b]
I have heard from a couple sources that the first run of 72 EXT 440cc's may have been black tagged? I have only seen 2 complete 72 EXT 440 twins and they both had black tags. I have no way of knowing if they are original motors or not, but one of the owners is pretty sure about it when I questioned it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jeffmsu @ May 12 2010, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gbarchives-eltigre @ May 11 2010, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All the 1972 EXT twins are red tagged.[/b]
I have heard from a couple sources that the first run of 72 EXT 440cc's may have been black tagged? I have only seen 2 complete 72 EXT 440 twins and they both had black tags. I have no way of knowing if they are original motors or not, but one of the owners is pretty sure about it when I questioned it.
[/b][/quote]
That's kinda of the story behind this sled-the guy I received it from claims he's the original owner from day one & used to race it...... I dunno
 

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RE: Black Tagged 1972 EXT engines: Hmmmm. OK I can see how this could have happened. Cat was sued by the USSA for rebuilding the 1972 EXT engines as they were being assembled. Kawasaki sent a shipment of either bad engines or bad cylinders. Turns out they got just a little waterlogged on the boat on the way over and the salt spray combined with a mediocre chrome job to get the engines jugs peeling before they were even installed or started. Maybe some water got into the cranks? So, say you got a bunch of 1971 EXT black tag cases sitting around and Kawy also sent over some replacement top ends for the red tag motors. You got a DEADLINE to meet for race sled construction and shipment. What are you going to do? Take the 1971 engines apart and update them to 1972 specs and then install them in the chassis!

I stand corrected and I bow to you. This is a perfectly plausible explanation. Thanks! Not worthy: Not worthy: Not worthy: Not worthy: Not worthy: Not worthy: Not worthy: Not worthy: Not worthy: Not worthy: Not worthy: Not worthy: Not worthy:
I have the memo from Kawasaki about the chrome problem. They backtracked it all the way to the casting shop in Japan. A few employees were not taking the time to make sure the aluminum was fully prepped and cleaned before the bores were chromed. I wonder what happened to those guys? :Bangin:
Anyway Cat and the USSA settled the suit by running some of the EXT's in stock, some in mod classes. Cat's point was they were repairing a bad engine shipment to make customers happy, not cheating. The suit dragged on close to December of 1971 before both sides gave in 50-50 and settled.
 

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Glen,
your knowledge on this far extends mine, Not worthy: I am just going with what I have seen. I have no idea what is correct.

Mike Meager(VSCA magazine) just sold a 72 440 EXT on Vintagesleds.com yesterday for a very fair price. I was about 20 minutes late or I would have owned it. He said it also had a black tagged 440 and it all appeared original.
 

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So was it limited to the 440 and 400 twins? Has anyone seen any other engine size as a black tag?
The 1971 twins would have been listed on the tag as some minor variation of T1A400F1A or T1A440F3A, I think. The 440 for the 1971 EXT had the CDI ignition. The differences would have been in the port dimensions and probably the compression ratio. The 1971 EXT engines had a fairly high compression ratio for the early Kawasaki Cat engines, around 7.5 to 1. For the 1972 engines most of the compression ratios I have are lower, but the port dimensions are changed and we know the '72 versions made more power than the 1971 versions. This stuff still facinates me because there is so much dogma around it. I'm going to update the articles I wrote about 11 years ago someday. They still have them on Boss Cat's webpage. They badly need updating as I have learned a lot since then, and still are. But I need to find the time! It seems more like only 5 years ago I wrote those, not 11! Not to meantion some of the hidious typos that have slipped through and still are on those pages.
 

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Hi,I Received a 72 400 eXt ( woot free no doubt) anyway what's the deal on this should it have a red tag on the engine or not (it's black) the guy I got it from insists it's the original motor.V.I.N is 2108674 The Bad is there's no track, or pipes & snuffers-the hood is fair/needs some work. gauges are all good/with a little fade. crappy picture, it reads " TIA400FIA the A is like it was stamped on the tag the others are smooth. any ideas? maybe a 72/w a 71 motor??

Hi, I just bought a 72 EXT with a T1A400R1A in it. Here is a pic of the tag. I stumbled across this thread while trying to find some info. My sled was actually a 440 but the owner/racer supposedly had 6 that he took parts from to make a winning motor and the 400 in the sled now was the one he raced. I haven't pulled it apart yet to check it out before I try running it. My hood is a mystery. It is a 72 EXT hood but the graphics are green. Some say it looks like a Jag but they didn't come out with them until 75. The 73 el Tigre were similar but this isn't one of them. The original hood was destroyed in a race roll and tumble so they put this one on it and raced with it. This one needs work but I would rather find out if it is unique or just someone's custom paint job before messing it up. Or If I can find another hood I will leave this one be.
 

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1972 EXT 400 Twin

Good Morning,
I have stumbled on to a real nice almost untouched 72 ext 400 twin red tag (T1A400F1) motor, Part 0110-453, serial # 2099211. I am 49 years young and feel like a kid again after finding this rare piece of history ! As a child I was lucky enough to have parents that bought me a 1974 340 eltigre while my father rode the 1974 400 eltigre. Those were great times and i am very excited to learn more about this sled. Hope to hear from you guys. I am looking for the 1972 EXT service manual ? Please !Rockerdude
 

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Hi, I just bought a 72 EXT with a T1A400R1A in it. Here is a pic of the tag. I stumbled across this thread while trying to find some info. My sled was actually a 440 but the owner/racer supposedly had 6 that he took parts from to make a winning motor and the 400 in the sled now was the one he raced. I haven't pulled it apart yet to check it out before I try running it. My hood is a mystery. It is a 72 EXT hood but the graphics are green. Some say it looks like a Jag but they didn't come out with them until 75. The 73 el Tigre were similar but this isn't one of them. The original hood was destroyed in a race roll and tumble so they put this one on it and raced with it. This one needs work but I would rather find out if it is unique or just someone's custom paint job before messing it up. Or If I can find another hood I will leave this one be.
the decals are 77 jag decals, they were obviously added later.
http://www.bosscatlegacy.com/acproto/production/77jag340_0v1.jpg

I see someone was shopping at Chuck's place. :)

here is a picture of that sled a couple years ago when I thought of buying it! nice buy!
 
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