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Discussion Starter #1
I have asked this question on HCS and here and still have no solution or definitive steps to take to resolve. Before I spend a lot of money into this CCE set up, I want to understand the exact way the suspension components work together and how adjustments made effect each other. I would rather spend the money on a standard shock then fool with the dial in if that will solve my sag.

There are a few main factors that contribute to the sag of these skids.

#1 Torsion Springs. I have replaced with a heavier than factory spring. My setting for the adjusters are set on the highest.

#2 Rear shock. Mine was rebuilt and I have the clicker set on the highest.

#3 The position of the rear shock in the three hole bracket. Mine is set in the middle.

Now here is where I do not want to spend money then end up having to get the standard shock anyway. The dial adjust front shock. Now I understand that the shock does not hold the weight of the tunnel, but rather the springs do. So, here is where I would like someone who knows.. to explain how the components work.

How does the effect on the limiter straps raise or lower the skid. How does the front spring tighten or loosen effect the height and rebound. How does the bolt positions on the rails for the rear scissor effect the height.

How does the front ski springs effect the rear stiffness. If I lower the front, will it raise the ass? Are the adjustments sudle?

If anyone can give me a break down in detail how an adjustment on any component will help, hurt or otherwise.. I would appreciate it.

Thanks...
 

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not sure what you want to achieve (can't remember what the issue was) but here goes:

sag - you can create sag by adjusting the limit straps tighter this brings the front of the skid up into the tunnel (with the back of the sled lifted off the ground) so as you lower the sled the back of the skid reaches the ground first and simply "rocks" the entire suspension back to horizontal, that amount of travel it takes to "rock" it back to level is the amount of sag your gonna have

to get rid of sag you need to loosen the limit straps so that when you lift the sled and slowly lower it back down the front and rear of the skid touch the ground at the same time - no sag

front skid shock adjustment - i like to set it same as the ski shocks keeps it balanced

ski shock setting - where you like it for your weight (up to 150# 3.5 turns, up to 200# 4.5 turns, up to 250# 5.5 turns) but always re-set the limit straps again after any ski adjustments to get the skid horizontal again

hope this helps

all the springs (5) are the same rate and need to work together for balance
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sorry for not posting what the issue is. My CCE ass end is sitting too low under its own weight. I can lift it up by the bumper and there is a good amount of play to reach the top, then I let go and it drops back down.

My standard ZR's I can push down on the bumper and then let go and the ass springs back up on its own and stands high.

I have had the rear skid shock rebuilt. I had new torsion springs (1704-088 and 1704-089), new torsion slides. I have adjusted my front skid shock to a few different settings. My dial adjust is unscrewwed all the way loose.

I see there are many many posters all over the net that have the same issue with this suspension. I have not founf a clear answer as to how the entire set up works together.

meaning, if i tighten the front skid shock, does is raise the tunnel up higher or sit it down lower? If i adjust the limiters, I know it adds ski pressure.. but how does it effect the rear of the sled?

Thanks
 

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I am using the 0704-944 and 0704-945 springs with the torque rods in the top hole. Mine runs great, no sag, no bottoming, on the lightest block setting, and I weigh about 220 with gear.
 

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get rid of the front center clicker shock there junk and a wast of money u can get a different one on ebay or part swap just measure eye to eye if u already changed the rear springs with heavyer springs that should have made a huge difference, what part # did u get, when i put mine on i had to cut them, my dad ordered them and i think they were 2 up rear springs that will work for ur sled, dont have the part number but its there, also u can get the rear triangular adjustment a metal one with a higher setting, id stick with the stock set up for the hole ever how things go togeather i use this websight.
http://www.brownsleisureworld.com/frame.cg...arts/index.html
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bpatton74 @ Dec 21 2009, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I am using the 0704-944 and 0704-945 springs with the torque rods in the top hole. Mine runs great, no sag, no bottoming, on the lightest block setting, and I weigh about 220 with gear.[/b]
I bet if you move them to the bottom hole you will gain more travle and will be a softer ride!
 

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first let me start by saying the dial adjust shock is not junk. like any rebuildable shock it needs serviced also. they did update the internal moving piston. if the shock is working correctly you should have 1 turn in on the dial before it starts getting harder to turn. if not it needs rebuilt. how the front shock works. by turning in on the dial it essentially compresses the front skid shock, just like tightening the limiter straps do, but with the dial adjust it allows you to change it while ridning for certain trail conditiions. essentially it adds or takes away front ski preasrue for turning abilitly. if your front skid shock has an internal leak it may be stuck in a compressed state. if it is then your rear will sag. the rear suspension works together. have a freind lift up on the bumper just so it is up but not off the ground. then look and your clearence onder the skid where the front shock is, is it off the ground? this is where you need to start. first loosen the front spring so it has 1/4 to a 1/2 inch from the nut to the end of the shck body. to many people crank on the springs. if you crank on the springs then they are pre loaded. essentially a #100 lb spring is still a #100 bl spring but when you crank down the nut it just preloads the spring which is not good. what needs to be done if you want it stiffer is to use a higher lb. spring. if you want to learn about the suspension and how it works when adjusted i sugest an arctic cat service manual. i will see if i can post the info from the manual.
 

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Hey pjb,

I've told you what I did for mine and it works great. If you want some real expert help you can contact Hy-Gear suspension out of Ithica NY. They are top notch guys. I suspect your problem is either limiter straps to tight or your dial ajust shock is shot. I did away with the dial ajust. Hy-gear has a block off for it. good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks guys. I spoke to a local dealer who is great at rebuilds and set ups. He basically told me that I was in the right direction, but there are many variables that could affect how the ass end sits. He said to drop the front ski springs so the nose sits lower. He said the front skid shock is the pivot point in the suspension and will not raise or lower the very ass end.

Again, this is only what I was told.. so take it at that. It makes sense to me since I have seen the way the dial adjust works. He said it basically will compress the front of the skid, pulling the front of the track off the ground, adding more ski pressure. It has no change in how the bumber is raised or lowered.

I don't believe my dial adjust is stuck because it does move the suspesion the way it is intended and there is pressure on the dial.

I think I need to concentrate on my ride this weekend and fool with it when I get back.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Here is a view from the front of both my standard 600 and CCE 600. The CCE sits higher. i wonder if I lower the front, if it will raise the back and use the front skid as the pivot as it is designed.

Should the front skid shock be lossened all the way then cranked a few times?

[attachment=142551:frontview.jpg]
 

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Check that the front skid bolts (bolts that go through tunnel into the front suspension arm) are in the lower mounting holes, there is usually 2 options. If someone had the skid out to rebuild the rear shock they may have reinstalled it in the wrong location. Assuming that the shock is not collapsed (i believe it is working based on what your are saying), then the problem is your limiter straps. The previous owner may have tightened the limiter straps to increase the weight on the front end and keep the skis down coming out of corners.

I dealt with this issue a few years ago when i bought an 05 F7 standard and installed a set of fox floats from a sno pro model. It raised the front end a bit (just like in the picture you posted) and as a result the rear bumper had about 5 inches of sag. I let out the limiter straps so that the front of the skid was flat on the ground with the rear bumper raised just enough to take up the sag... solved the problem.

Best of luck.
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjb153 @ Dec 22 2009, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Here is a view from the front of both my standard 600 and CCE 600. The CCE sits higher. i wonder if I lower the front, if it will raise the back and use the front skid as the pivot as it is designed.

Should the front skid shock be lossened all the way then cranked a few times?[/b]
I would say yes to all the above. That's how I do mine.

When loosening the spring retainers for the skis, do it off the ground. It's possible to loosen it too much and lose the spring retainers out on the trail when the skis come up off the ground.
 

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I have had the same problems on the LE and CCE.
Cat put the front shock cross shaft in the wrong position hole
in the slide rail. Moved it one hole forward and amazing!! NO SAG
I also got with some shock rebuilders and they let me know ut isn't the first they heard
of it. It isn't brand specific either.
The idiots prepping these sleds should have caught this long ago.
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fijjity @ Jan 5 2010, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I have had the same problems on the LE and CCE.
Cat put the front shock cross shaft in the wrong position hole
in the slide rail. Moved it one hole forward and amazing!! NO SAG
I also got with some shock rebuilders and they let me know ut isn't the first they heard
of it. It isn't brand specific either.
The idiots prepping these sleds should have caught this long ago.[/b]
Thanks for the heads-up; I'll have to look at that as I'm still playing around with the suspension travel (or lack thereof)
on my 600 CCE.

Throwing a wrench into it all, I'm getting a new track for it too - 121x15x1.75; I like going off-trail so the longer
paddle should help in the powder but I'm really wondering how to set up the suspension correctly for these conditions; I think
I'll be fine-tuning the remainder of the winter

Rian
 

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I will be working on mine this weekend - I will let you know what happen's .. I got sag in mine, But I belive I have my limiter straps tight . Going to loosen - as posted above.
 

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I bought a used 98 Z440, rear end sagged 3 to 4 inches, put new springs in--same problem.
You could pick up the rear bumper, but it always settled back down.
Then I noticed the front of the track was off the concrete.
Started to loosen limiter straps and could see the rear end going slowly back up.
Took some measurement from other sleds, thanks to other Chat members and the rear end was back normal and the heavy steering effort was also gone.
2 birds with one stone!
Called the previous owner, he thought if you shortened limiter straps that it would go better though deep snow.
In a non related problem, secondary clutch spring was also busted. So I picked up the gem for cheap and with a few minor adjustments, was back in business with a very nice kids sled.

My guess is the limiter strap or anything that keeps front of the skid suspension from fully extending.
I can give you some measurement form a non CC sled but dont know if that will do you any good...............tigger
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjb153 @ Dec 21 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Sorry for not posting what the issue is. My CCE ass end is sitting too low under its own weight. I can lift it up by the bumper and there is a good amount of play to reach the top, then I let go and it drops back down.

My standard ZR's I can push down on the bumper and then let go and the ass springs back up on its own and stands high.

I have had the rear skid shock rebuilt. I had new torsion springs (1704-088 and 1704-089), new torsion slides. I have adjusted my front skid shock to a few different settings. My dial adjust is unscrewwed all the way loose.

I see there are many many posters all over the net that have the same issue with this suspension. I have not founf a clear answer as to how the entire set up works together.

meaning, if i tighten the front skid shock, does is raise the tunnel up higher or sit it down lower? If i adjust the limiters, I know it adds ski pressure.. but how does it effect the rear of the sled?

Thanks[/b]
I had the same problem i messed with the clicker its all the way ajusted UP adjusting down makes it sag about 3 inches
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spit_fire7c @ Dec 21 2009, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
get rid of the front center clicker shock there junk and a wast of money u can get a different one on ebay or part swap just measure eye to eye if u already changed the rear springs with heavyer springs that should have made a huge difference, what part # did u get, when i put mine on i had to cut them, my dad ordered them and i think they were 2 up rear springs that will work for ur sled, dont have the part number but its there, also u can get the rear triangular adjustment a metal one with a higher setting, id stick with the stock set up for the hole ever how things go togeather i use this websight.
http://www.brownsleisureworld.com/frame.cg...arts/index.html[/b]
Hell yes im getting rid of mine next shock rebuild there a pain to hook up you always lose TINY drop of oil trying to do it and then you have to worry about like mine last year it somehow the straps broke and the skid chopped her right in half on the line ill try to find somehting close to a ACT any ideas? and i never like to play with it once its set for no sag and hardest setting i bottomed out 2x this year so far but that was just from a wicked bump at 40 and 60 mph rofl didnt even knew what happend just remembered me hanging on and the nose pointing to the sky :) lol
 
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