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post #1 of 36 Old 04-16-2019, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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Top Tier Gasoline?

As a newly returning owner/rider after a dozen years or so, I have been consuming as much information as I can on whats going to be my operational plan for my new C-Tech2 600 engine.
I really don't want to start an octane or ethanol debate, Arctic Cat clearly states the recommended fuel to be used should be a minimum of 91 octane and a max level of 10% ethanol is permitted.
My concern is with using top tier gas or not, top tier has a more aggressive detergent package designed to keep intake valves and combustion chambers clean in modern car/truck engines.
I haven't found anywhere that top tier in 2 strokes is preferred or not, has anyone seen anything that addressee this topic?
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post #2 of 36 Old 04-16-2019, 08:41 AM
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You can run as low as 87 octane in them. Has a knock sensor that will add fuel as needed. Have run it a few times and never noticed a difference. I will not run ethonal in mine as the fuel goes bad fast.
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post #3 of 36 Old 04-16-2019, 09:39 AM
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It is a good question.

I wonder how quickly the top tier gasoline breaks down? Doesn't seem to be a lot of information. I ask because I try to run good gas toward the end of the season. Never know when it might be the last ride.


I often need fuel in areas that leave very little choice. One pump, one gas. It is not always 91 gas. The sleds do run with lower octane. They do have less power when they start dumping fuel.


I haven't really worried about running ethanol. Gas doesn't sit in the tank long. During the season, I run whatever is available. Toward the end, I try to find good non-oxy gas.

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post #4 of 36 Old 04-16-2019, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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Again, I'm totally aware of the octane and ethanol facts, fictions and opinions.
My question is about top tier gasoline, top tier refers to the gasoline suppliers additive packages that contain a minimum amount of detergents in order to qualify stringent fuel requirement of many auto manufacturers.
My concern would be the detergents harmful or beneficial to the new 2 stroke engines, I haven't seen any official writings on the topic from 2 stroke engine manufacturers and wondering if anyone has.
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post #5 of 36 Old 04-16-2019, 03:03 PM
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Your research should be the availability of Non-ethanol premium. Not the detergent packages. Octane is Octane, how they get it is whats harmful or not. And the way they are getting it and still burn "cleaner" is with the Ethanol. Unfortunately for us two stroke users this plays with the burn rates, flame temperatures and the amounts of oil injected that goes along with that. The Cetc has an electric oil pump. The computer is getting input from everything. Outside temp, speed, throttle position etc. making whatever-million calculations per second to deliver "X" amount of oil. Throw in ethanol (an oxygen bearing chemical) into the equation and this is where it sort of upsets the apple cart. I never run any. Where I go there is 110 octane leaded race fuel at the pump, and all three levels of fuel with no ethanol. Sometimes we have to go to a Kwik Trip which is your "Top Tier" stuff but thats all blended Ethanol. We stay away from it for that reason. It has all those "Top Tier" required detergents, but we stay away from it because it has Ethanol in it and can separate over time faster, not because of the detergents. I've never heard or seen any write-ups where some detergents were harmful to a two stroke engine. In fact Cat's injection oils all contain some amount of detergents

I wouldn't sweat it. But if that's all you have over there then put some storage additives in it with a full tank in the spring and drain the stuff in the fall and put it in your car to burn it off

There's a list of the Top Tier brands in the bottom of the Wiki page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Ti...rgent_Gasoline

I can pretty much bet you none of it is going to be straight Ethanol-free fuel

When in doubt use AvGas
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post #6 of 36 Old 04-16-2019, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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Holy cheese and crackers, Top Tier gasolines have NOTHING to do with octane or ethanol. Top tier fuels can be straight gas of any octane or of any ethanol content, manufacturers can even have top tier diesel fuel.I Know everybody on snowmobile, motorcycle and car forums are bleeding from the ears about octane and ethanol, but MY QUESTION is about the extra detergents in the top tier fuels. I don't need or WANT octane or ethanol advice. Thanks anyways
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post #7 of 36 Old 04-16-2019, 05:14 PM
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I know jack about top tier gas in the USA as in my part of Canada get 91 premium, 89 mid grade and 87 low grade. You may get top tier gas in the big cities but face it, you may be in the boonies and need gas and youíre going to get what you get. You canít worry about it as no one else seems to be. I know I donít feed my seasonal rides and equipment any corn. Itís 91 premium only. You got answers from three guys who are knowledgeable and give great advice.

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post #8 of 36 Old 04-16-2019, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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Perhaps I'm not making my question clear, and maybe nobody has pondered it before, but top tier gasolines have 3 to 4 times more cleaning additives that non top tier gasolines. Lets take Mobil/Exon, a top tier supplier of fuels, their fuels will have more cleaners by far than lets say Speedway fuels of the same classification(ie octane/ethanol blends), which are not blending their fuel to meet top tier standards .
So with that info in mind, taking out the octane and ethanol equation, would a fuel with more or less cleaners be the fuel of choice?
On one hand I would like a cleaning fuel to keep the fuel injectors, pistons, rings and perhaps the APV's clean. Then on the other hand I would not to be too aggressive with cleaners as not to clean oil away from the bearings in the crank, rods, and wrist pin bearings.
Like I said twice, lets not debate the octane, ethanol or the oil for that matter.
Pure Question......High detergent fuel or low detergent fuel? That is the question.
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post #9 of 36 Old 04-16-2019, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acpantera View Post
I don't need or WANT octane or ethanol advice. Thanks anyways
I didn't give you any either, read it again. And thank you for the kind words at the end.

Owning a Thundercat is like having a totally hot wife..... All of your friends want to see it, feel it and check it out..... They all want to know what it is like to ride it, but if they only knew how much time and money it takes to keep one up, they would call you a fool!

Seen in a DOO forum

"Of all the 850 vs Sidewinders/Thundercat/ZR 9000's; you are the first I have ever heard that beat one. I know the 850 is strong but it's down 30 hp from the turbo sleds.
I have a low slung fully built( by a well know engine builder) 3 cylinder 800 cc that made multiple dyno pulls over 200 hp on a calibrated Land and Sea dyno and I barely pull my buddy on his stock Thundercat. And I do have video."

Things on NASA headphones that are not good;
"That supposed to be like that?" "What the hell was that?" "Did you just pee in your spacesuit"
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post #10 of 36 Old 04-16-2019, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guudasitgets View Post
I didn't give you any either, read it again. And thank you for the kind words at the end.
I know you gave a lot of info, some I agree and some not, in any case your answers were of questions I did not ask. A repeat of my last post.
Perhaps I'm not making my question clear, and maybe nobody has pondered it before, but top tier gasolines have 3 to 4 times more cleaning additives that non top tier gasolines. Lets take Mobil/Exon, a top tier supplier of fuels, their fuels will have more cleaners by far than lets say Speedway fuels of the same classification(ie octane/ethanol blends), which are not blending their fuel to meet top tier standards .
So with that info in mind, taking out the octane and ethanol equation, would a fuel with more or less cleaners be the fuel of choice?
On one hand I would like a cleaning fuel to keep the fuel injectors, pistons, rings and perhaps the APV's clean. Then on the other hand I would not to be too aggressive with cleaners as not to clean oil away from the bearings in the crank, rods, and wrist pin bearings.
Like I said twice, lets not debate the octane, ethanol or the oil for that matter.
Pure Question......High detergent fuel or low detergent fuel? That is the question.
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