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A Pre-season Must For All Carbed Sleds, All Makes And All Models

8K views 41 replies 27 participants last post by  forevergreen 
#1 · (Edited)
First off I want to say that I am a snowmobile mechanic and I have been getting a lot of sleds ready for people this year.

The most damaged items I have found, believe it or not is the fuel lines, they are just falling apart when you touch them, especially the pickup fuel line that is soaking in the gas on both sides that is bouncing around inside the tank. The culprit is the high priced ethanol soaked garbage that the oil manufactures call "gasoline".

I was ridding my 01 Mountain Cat 1000 last year and got stranded 25 miles from home when my pickup hose in the tank deteriorated to mush inside the tank and fell off at the nipple and ran out of gas. You will not notice it until the sled runs out of gas at a 1/3 of a tank because the level is below where the fuel line attaches at the tank.

If you pull the airbox off, you will see where the fuel line attaches to the tank, Pull the line off, take a wrench and loosen the nipple and pull the fuel line out and make sure the brass pickup weight is on the end of the hose.
Measure the length and make a new hose and put it back together, make sure you put Teflon tape on the threads when putting it back together.
Also, make sure you remove the gas cap if it has the gauge in it so the fuel line doesn't get hung up in it as you slide it in.

7 out of 10, the hose expands at the fittings and the pickup weight
falls off or it falls off the nipple end where the fitting screws in the tank since there is no clearance for a clamp or tie wrap on it, as it won't fit through the hole where it goes into the tank.

The other 3 out of 10 the hose is just mush or very brittle.


Take a look, may save you a lot of heartache.
Mike
 
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#5 ·
you would think that with the newer sleds that they would use hose that dosnt fall apart in ethelcrap. esspecialy where i saw on my 2004 zr 900 efi that there is a wire you need to disconect if you are running ethel fuel!!!:wacko: so they are thinking ahead enough to put that sticker on??? you would think....... but we all know how dumb big company's can be lmfao!!:Bangin:
 
#6 ·
Good call Mike. I usually pull the fuel pick up line out of the top of the tank 1 time per year just to give both the fuel line and the fuel screen that is on the end of the fuel line a look just to verify it is still in good condition. The short period of time money and effort it takes to replace the line, it is well worth it to do it every few years if not every year.
 
#8 ·
Are you guys seeing this on sleds that are running only 10% ethanol or ones that are running higher percentages? Also, if replacing the lines is there a better type of line that can handle the ethanol without breaking down?
I live in MI and as far as I know they are still only running 10% ethanol.
 
#9 ·
That's the one hose I've been reluctant to change, only because most of the stuff out there is worse and won't last a season. I picked up some urethane fuel line now and hopefully it will hold up. My concern was having the tank fuel line harden up and not move around the tank like it's suppose to. Also seems this problem is evident on snow blowers and weed wackers as well.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Man Snow, you are so right. A few years back I burned down a ZRT 800 and could not find out why? I pressure tested the engine for leaks, went through the carbs and fuel pump, checked the filter and fuel line and found NOTHING? So I decided to vacuum test the fuel line and filter from the fuel pump inlet to the brass filter/weight. It would not hold a vaccum? I unscrewed the tank fitting and as I pulled it out of the tank the pickup fuel line fell into the fuel tank. Problem found, sucking air insted of fuel. As you know you can't install a clamp on the fuel line because you won't be able to screw the fuel line and fitting back into the tank. So what I did was to install one of those spring clamps (see pic) on the fuel line and fitting then using a Drumel tool with a cutoff wheel buzz of the clamp projections. Screwed it right into the tank and problem solved. OH, by the way I only use Arctic fuel line of the .235"/.250" size.

Auggie
 
#11 ·
Hey guys, if you're interested in getting your hands on some pure gasoline (no ethanol) check out a website called pure-gas.org . Click on your state and it will give you a whole list of towns, and the stations and the octanes they sell. interestingly most of them are marina's. If it's not convieniant to use pure gas in your machine all the time, at least getting some to fill your tank during storage periods would seem like a good idea.
 
#13 ·
only 1 or 2 gallons for storage is fine, but if your sled is anything like mine it literally spends more months of the year in storage than sitting in my garage ready to ride. So it seems to me that if the fuel lines are not exposed to the ethanol for all that storage time they won't be getting eaten while in storage.
 
#16 · (Edited)
What Snow800 said!!

We are at 36 complete fuel system rebuilds on sleds so far. It seems a lot more people that aren't buying new are fixing up their old sleds that have been in storage for 2+ years now. I have had SEVERAL that the hoses are ending up as a gummy glop in the bottom of the tanks. I have a setup that I run off my vacuum tank with a 3/8 plastic tube to go around inside the tank to suck it up like snot. If I didn't suck it out, it gets stuck to the pickup and clogs the end of that. The pieces of crumbling hose are so sticky that they can't be dumped out. It gets sucked out in globs pretty easy if there is residual fuel in the tank. If it is stuck to the bottom, I have them boiled out, or in severe cases it is more cost effective to replace the tank than pay me by the hour.

You can get "red" gas which is 90 octane. Hard to find, but mostly abundant near marine communities, but not sledding. The ethanol is mixed prior to the delivery or during since it settles at the refinery and cannot be mixed and remain stable. I have noticed more separation in the marine industry, but now I am seeing long term effects in the snowmobile industry with sun and cold not being a factor but heat during storage in the summer.

Star (the aqua blue stuff)makes the additive that fights the enzyme which creates the dissimilar corrosion in the float bowls. Regardless of who says what is ethanol compatible. I replace any jets that are not shiny brass because the corrosion will reappear. The customer is not going to keep up with additives and maybe education is their best defense. I scare them because they don't want to do another $150 per carb rebuild.
 
#17 ·
You can get "red" gas which is 90 octane. Hard to find, but mostly abundant near marine communities, but not sledding. The ethanol is mixed prior to the delivery or during since it settles at the refinery and cannot be mixed and remain stable. I have noticed more separation in the marine industry, but now I am seeing long term effects in the snowmobile industry with sun and cold not being a factor but heat during storage in the summer.
The reason ethanol is not blended at the refinery is because it is not allowed in the pipelines. Sometimes the trucks hauling to the gas stations will keep pure ethanol from the terminal in a separate compartment and mix it in the gas stations tank.

Ethanol has a high affinity for water. What do you put in your tank if you have a water problem? Iso propyl alcohol...ethanol does the same thing. The reason for the separation is when ethanol becomes saturated with water, it comes out of solution and drops to the bottom of the tank with the water. The separation is a tank maintenance issue and has nothing to do with the stability of ethanol and gas.
 
#18 ·
Tell the separation thing to Suzuki marine. It seperates via chemical reaction. water doesn't create the issues we have in the fuel. It changes properties when combined with the heat . We had 5 new powerheads on outboards blow in less than 3 hrs of use. 2 were fueling up when the tanker dumped an inconsistent mix during the transfer at the station.
Got fuel at 3 different stations, different suppliers and still had the issue. The same "refinery mixing" process was used.

Ethanol fuels are fine for cars burnin it at the rate with electronics to monitor and control the burn process.
 
#19 ·
I test gas field samples, including some from marinas, and have not seen this separation issue before. Every sample I've seen with EtOH separation had water contamination. I would like to know more; what do you mean by 'refinery mixing?' I would like to know what this chemical reaction is, since the reaction with water is a chemical reaction. Not trying to attack here...just trying to achieve a better understanding.

I have visited engine test facilities that test 2 cycle oils in Johnson outboards, and they have not seen any long term effects of EtOH.
 
#21 ·
I had this similar problem in my GTP because it ran on e85. Fuel line in the canister that goes from the actual pump to the feed line kept popping off. The gas was making the line swell up and pop off even with some pretty heavy duty clamps on it. Found some SUBMERSIBLE e85 compatible fuel line (which is a ridiculous $24/ft.) and never had an issue with it after. Definitely something to try to find for the sleds, I've actually been looking for some myself to put on my sled. It's proving to be a challenge to find in that small of a size. This stuff will solve the issue if you can find it in the correct size. It does not get stiff and crack, it's quite flexible, it'll work with regular fuel, e85, etc, it's submersible (which is where the swelling issue comes into play) and it comes in packages of 1 foot. Just figured I'd throw this out there as this stuff fixed the issue with my car so I see no reason why it will not solve the sled problem as well
 
#22 ·
There is a huge post over on H.C.S. about ethanol gas and the problems it is creating with small engines. It is in the Polaris section and the post creator claims to be retired chemist that worked in the fuel industry. Pretty interesting reading. Might want to take a trip over there and take a peek. Peace,beeler
 
#26 · (Edited)
Easier way to check your fuel pickup

Hi all, I did this check today on my 97 ZL 440, the tank was empty as this is how I store it every year, I siphon the gas and burn in my truck and run the snowmobile until it burns all the fuel out of the carbs and fuel lines,, takes care of the ethanol seperation worry. Anyway, rather than pull out the air box and unthread the fuel line where it enters the tank as suggested, I used a bent coat hanger to pick the fuel line up from the bottom of the tank and pulled it out through the filler hole on top. I think my line and pick up are both original, the line was flexible and the metal pickup and screen were intact. You could do this with a full tank as well, saves draining etc, took me less than 5 minutes, of course if the line and pickup are bad, you will have to pull it apart. In regards to adding alcohol when running ethanol fuel, the manual states you don't have to as the ethanol ask as a fuel antifreeze, max allowable ethanoil blend is 10%. Thanks to the original poster for a the great tip to check this part of the fuel system out, I think this was gone on my 99 Panther 550 as it used to run bad when the fuel gauge said 1/4 tank.

Cheers Kingston rider
 
#28 ·
Oh great. Another ethanol kills all engines thread. Here in the Chicago area we have had to deal with E10 for many many years. I have never had one problem that could be attributed to using E10 and i have never changed one component in any fuel system to run it. This includes snowmobiles, boats, cars, ATVs, snow blowers, lawn mowers, weed eaters, and anything else that i have that runs on gas. Don't know what you guys are doing different, but I have zero problems with E10.
 
#31 ·
Being from Chicago area too, let me ask you how long does your fuel sit in cans, or the equipment?

I try to buy just enough fuel for the mower for the month. I treat the fuel in my sleds before storage, but try to get as much out as I can to add fresh for the season.

Now at the fire dept, we have gas cans on the rigs for the tools like the extrication pump, 2 saws, fan, and a portable Honda generator. The people in charge there insist that we don't need to use sta-bil or seafoam in the gas too. We send at least one of these tools out for repair each year. Every time they say it is the gas. We just don't burn through it quick enough.
 
#42 ·
Are you using fuel that specifically states it is alcohol free or "non-oxygenated"? I would say that almost all fuels contain atleast some amount of ethanol. Most are close to the 10% blend limits. Buying premium fuel does not gurantee that there is no ethanol in the fuel. The only way to be sure is by buying fuel that is sold as alcohol free on the pump. Glad to hear that you haven't been having any problems, but that doesn't mean that you haven't had ethanol in your fuel. I know my fuel contains ethanol and I also haven't had any major issues with my sleds. IMO fuel lines breakdown overtime and need to be replaced periodically regardless of what fuel you are running. Just my thoughts, lots of good info and opinions in this thread guys.
 
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