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500 automatic tranny issue?

3K views 28 replies 6 participants last post by  doorfx 
#1 ·
03 500 automatic 4x4 FIS
Acquired from a fella that out a new timing chain on
Afterward he said it had no power
I have to agree
Symptoms
Put into to forward gears it operates fine but seems like it's not shifting into lower gears not is it shifting into higher gears. Almost like it's stuck in mid range (2 or 3 maybe?).
However, in reverse it'll spin the tail out from under itself.

Removed the clutch cover and clutches seem to be functioning. I did notice that the belt does move all the way to the top of the primary. Cannot tell if the engine rpms are accurate at full throttle. Seems strong but I'm unfamiliar with this bike.


Any ideas?
Timing marks checked, carb seems clear. I'm at a loss.
He "said" it ran fine before the timing chain.
 
#3 ·
Curious as to why it needed a timing chain, but anyway hopefully someone with experience with the automatics will answer. You have Low Range and Hi Range (2 speed CVT). I would guess it would top out around 30 mph in Low and 50-55 mph in Hi. Thats a very nice machine, Suzuki 500 is a stout motor. I have over 7,000 miles on my manual shift 500.
 
#4 ·
I'm not sure about why he changed the chain. Bikes In good shape for its age but has been ridden pretty hard by the looks of things.
Right now my high range is topping out at maybe 30. Maybe... There isn't enough to torque to spin the tires in the dirt. It does have over size tires but still, the take off just isn't there. It reminds of a manual shift take off in 2nd gear honestly.

Thanks for the reply and encouragement on this motor. I've heard a lot of good about it.


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#5 ·
My guess is since he said he had no power after the timing chain install that the timing is off. Also depending on how big a tire was put on it you may have lost some bottom end so it may never be able to spin the tire.
 
#6 · (Edited)
500 automatic

Thanks zrock for the suggestion. Very much appreciated.

Timing was my guess too. I checked and it's dead on.
Spinning the tires isn't really what I'm after. I was just using that explain my dilemma with it.
Another description would be pulling a hill. My front yard has a pretty steep grade but nothing crazy. I have the throttle wide open and it barely pulls it in high.

I thought at first that it wasn't winding up. Like the jets were plugged. After watching a few YouTube videos it doesn't sound any different. I may just be used to smaller engines.

One thing I'm curious about is the drive belt. One video I watched showed the drive belt all the way to the outside of the primary clutch at full throttle. This one won't do that. At full throttle the primary still has probably 1-2" of inner plate exposed.
Could this be that the clutches aren't set right?
Could it be a stretched belt?
Could it be the engine is not hitting high enough rpm?

I don't want to keep throwing parts at it but I'm kinda stuck.


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#7 · (Edited)
You can measure your belt. I'm not sure if the service manual gives the specs, but I'm sure that you can get them if you call AC or Country Cat.
In your first post you said the belt moves all the way to the top of the primary, then in post #6 you said there was still 1-2" of primary left. I'm confused can you elaborate?
But regardless... if your belt is indeed riding 2" low in the primary when your at full throttle youll definitely be down on top speed. Don't know if it'll only be getting you 30mph's but down nevertheless.
And unless your geared for lowend, your not going to be able to spin your tires with a auto.
I'd recommend redoing the timing chain just to make sure it was done right... I'm thinking that this problem existed before the guy replaced the timing chain, and since it didn't fix it... just got rid of the problem. Measure your belt... its a lot easier than spending 200 to replace it when you don't need it...

oh yeah... get yourself a rpm gauge...
 
#8 ·
Thanks for advice
It must have been a typo in my original post. Should have said "does NOT go to the top of the primary."

My apologies. That is a consistent issue when typing on my phone.

I went ahead and bought the book and I cannot find the belt specs anywhere. To the eye the belt looks new. I don't see any wear on it noticeable but...

Anyway, I'm going to check the timing again. Got to thinking about it and the chain may still be a link off. Going to take another look this weekend.

I really don't care if it spins tires. I was just using that to express the loss of bottom end torque. Best way I can describe it is it's like it's stuck in 2nd or 3rd gear. Slow takeoff and no top end.

Thanks again.


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#9 ·
Your belt should sit flush with top of secondary clutch if it is good. Are your symptoms the same in low gear? Dirty carb with plugged jet will hamper higher RPM's thus not engaging clutch fully. Change plug if it's not in the best of shape. Make sure gas line vent is not plugged too. Just humor me and check throttle adjustment screw to make sure thumb throttle is not restricted of full movement.
 
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#14 ·
Just humor me and check throttle adjustment screw to make sure thumb throttle is not restricted of full movement.
Clap ya know... a mortal man would not have thought about this! Rockerdude nice recommendation!
 
#11 ·
Ok cool
Thanks for that
I will check it in the morning (maybe this afternoon depending on how hot is gets today). ;)
I will follow up
Btw, yes the symptoms are the same in low gear
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just curious... are you getting the same top speed and issue characteristics in both low and high gear?
And in low... does it hit the rpm limiter???
 
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#13 ·
hmmmmmmm you'll know if your hitting it.... the engine will start missing to keep it from over revving
 
#15 ·
after you check everything that 660 recommended... lift the rear tires... block the front really good, put it in 2 wheel drive, low and see if it hits the rev limiter with no load.
 
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#17 ·
okay... I might be wrong but... right belt or wrong belt, good belt or stretched belt, you'd hit the limiter in low regardless.

I'm still leaning towards the issue that the previous owner tried to correct with the timing chain didn't get resolved with the timing chain.

We can make a career with making guesses and recommendations..
 
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#19 ·
Ok. Finally able to look at my cat today.
The set screw on the throttle is backed all the way out. The stop doesn't even touch it.

I am also hitting the rev limiter in low range and reverse but not in high.

When I put it in low it climbs but struggles. High range barely climbs.

Going to start with the carb today and see what happens.


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#20 ·
Ok. Update time.

I talked to the guy I got the bike from.

He put a new timing chain on because it had jumped time. He reset it and it jumped again so a new chain.

The drive belt is brand new.


When pulling a hill it makes me think of a slipping clutch.


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#21 ·
What oil are you using in it?
 
#22 ·
I honestly do not know what oil is in it. I haven't changed it since I got it.

One thing I'm curious about. While going through the manual I see there is an electronic gear position indicator behind the secondary clutch. Could this be causing my issue? Like I said it's like it's stuck in one gear.


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#23 ·
If it acts like a slipping clutch it probably is. It could be your internal wet clutch slipping. If you use oil with any friction modifiers it will burn out your wet clutch. That is why I asked.
 
#26 ·
#27 ·
Also look in your fuse box for the diodes. They have what looks like an arrow on them. All the arrows have to point the same direction as what's on the fuse box.
If it works good in reverse I'll bet that is the problem, someone flipped one.

The three on the bottom
 
#29 ·
Scrap that I forgot it's an 03. You won't have diodes
 
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