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Old 11-21-2006, 10:00 PM   #1
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cliped from outher site.

this article talks about jaso FD being the best oil rating out there, but earlier it said JASO FC is the same?


any one know enough about this stuff to say one way or anouther? if its teh same , then theres some cheep oil out there with the best ratings available ..

i want to /PUNT 33 $ gallon oil


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this the article?


Two-Stroke Oil Ratings

Even today, there continues to be a huge number of questions regarding which oil is the one to use, which oil is better than another, and which oil is good enough. Let’s review the two-stroke lubricant standards; API TC; TCW; TC-W2; TC-W3; JASO FC; and ISO-L-EGD.
Non-racing two-stroke oils are usually given ratings from the API (American Petroleum Institute) “TC”, the BIA (Boating Industry Association) “TC-W” and currently the NMMA (National Marine Manufacturers Association) “TC-W2 and TC-W3”. The TC, TC-W and TCW2 standards are not current and do not meet the standards of today’s performance engines.

For a lubricant to receive one of these ratings it must pass certain levels of cleanliness and film strength. The lubricant is run at ratios up to 150:1 for specified times and loads. The engine is then examined for carbon deposits and for bearing and cylinder wear. If it meets the test criteria, the lubricant passes.

The Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Organization (JASO) developed a series of tests aimed at presenting more real-world conditions that a lubricant used in a motorcycle, snowmobile, ATV or PWC would encounter in use by consumers. They test for exhaust valve cleanliness, lubricity, exhaust smoke/blocking and initial torque. The highest JASO standard is FC. These tests are very difficult to pass and are a better indicator of a lubricants level of protection and performance that TC-W3 in non-marine applications.

European engine manufacturers tested TC-W3 and JASO lubricants and determined that their engines needed a cleaner lubricant and one that would withstand higher heat conditions. They established the ISO international standards for two stroke engine lubricants. Their first standard, ISO-L-EGB was comparable to the JASO FB standard. They later developed the ISO-L-EGC which is similar to the JASO FC rating.

They felt they needed an even tougher standard for the newest generation of performance two stroke engines. The ISO-L-EGD+ was created to establish a higher standard of detergency and ability to withstand higher levels of heat. The new test runs for 3 hours vs 1 hour for the previous test.

If a lubricant is certified ISO-L-EGD+ it has passed the most stringent tests set by American, Japanese and European engine manufacturers. Polaris recommends TC-W3 lubricants, Yamaha JASO FC and Ski-Doo/Sea-Doo requires ISO-L-EDG+ lubricants.

Examine the oil bottle of any oil in question and see what the highest level of certification is. It is generally accepted that if you use a lubricant that meets the ISO-L-EGD+ standard in your new snowmobile you will provide certified warranty compliance and protection.



AND this in later issue?


Two-Stroke Oil Ratings: Confusion

A small article titled “Two Stroke Oil Ratings” found in the Spring 2006 issue of SnowTech has created some confusion. Don Friedrich of Performance Parts informed us that there was no “ISO-L-EGD+” rating for two-stroke oils, as mentioned in the article.

Don is correct. Technically, the proper nomenclature is “ISO EGD”. This is the technically accurate spec per ISO, the use of the “L” and the “+” appears to be the cause of the confusion. Klotz uses “ISO-L-EGD+” on their oils, and that is where it came from.

ISO EGD is the “European” specification that slightly exceeds the “Japanese” JASO-FC. There is a new JASO-FD spec, as the ISO and JASO testing sequences have come closer together with the latest ‘FD’ and ‘EGD’ designations. Previously, the only difference was a 1 hour and 3 hour detergency - lubricity - ring groove - sticking test with JASO-FC and ISO-EGD respectively. Now, they are the same set of tests.

Manufacturers tend to ignore the JASO and ISO standards for marketing reasons. If they make specific recommendations to their customers to use an oil that meets a certain standard, then companies that specialize in lubricants can meet these standards and then claim “Factory Approved”. Therefore, the statement that “Ski-Doo/Sea-Doo requires ISO-L-EGD+ lubricants”, also found in the above mentioned article, is not completely accurate.

Ski-Doo/Sea-Doo has recommended the use of ISO EGD lubricants, but more specifically suggests the use of their own proprietary XPS lubricants as “no known equivalent is available” in reference to their SDI engines.

Meanwhile, you can quit looking for oils with a rating of ISO-L-EGD+. Instead, look for the ISO EGD or the new JASO-FD as the highest ratings available to 2-stroke oil manufacturers and users.







MY TEXT*****

soo

the real question is, if im reading this right

is ISO EGD/ JASO FC the same as ISO EGD+/JASO FD ?

from above

ISO EGD is the “European” specification that slightly exceeds the “Japanese” JASO-FC. There is a new JASO-FD spec, as the ISO and JASO testing sequences have come closer together with the latest ‘FD’ and ‘EGD’ designations. Previously, the only difference was a 1 hour and 3 hour detergency - lubricity - ring groove - sticking test with JASO-FC and ISO-EGD respectively. Now, they are the same set of tests.
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:37 PM   #2
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same question .. diff site. reply was



I think you answered your own question? EGD=FD, FC had 2 hrs less time on the test run. Wouldn't assume FC is inferior though as many FC oils would pass the egd/fc without reformulation, as would many api-tc oils. Many of the companys may not choose to $ubmit for certification though as the buying market doesn't pay much attention to the specs (yet). Most buy on hype. Then there are blenders that use verbage like: "meets or exceeds jaso or iso", "use where faso or iso is specified", but they aren't actually certified oils. Doesn't make them inferior either, but it is somewhat misleading.

Skidoo or rotax runs durability testing. 300hr continious runs on the dyno is typical. The runs are done with their own oils that they have worked with castrol to develop. The the testing and parts inspections satisfy their standard it is only natural thay would like to see the same oil used in the field, also helps the dealers. FWIW I have never seen rotax state iso-egd like in the above article. It's bombardier oil or if not available an api-tc spec, and there is always a "never use tcw-3 outboard oil" warning. Since api-tc is a simular oil to jaso or iso I can see them being ok with it. Also Polaris got bit by tcw3 oils with warranty issues on some of the aircooled atvs, and did a scramble to reformulate back to api-tc.

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not to sure what to think about jaso fc now though
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Old 11-22-2006, 09:48 AM   #3
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this is what wikipedia has to say about jaso stuff ,, althoguh i think its not current now..

but it has me concerned caseu the symbol on my quart herere does not have any seriel number

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JASO FC is a rating for a grade of oil.

Oils are granted the JASO FC certification by the Japanese Automotive Standards Organization. JASO FC is the highest rating for 2-stroke oils. JASO-FC oils leave little deposits and create very little smoke. They also pass lubricant and detergent tests. A JASO FC oil will have a rectangular seal. In the upper quarter of the rectangle will be a serial number and the lower three quarters will just have the letters M.

Again, there is an official JASO seal if the oil has been independently tested. The seal is a rectangle; in the upper quarter of the rectangle will be a serial number, and the lower three quarters will just have the letters MA.
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